[iamzack]

That's what the psycho right wing folks are on about with adding gays to the legislation. That it'll somehow silence religious protest against giving people their civil rights and whatnot. But it doesn't. It's not a precedent for it.

But if someone is murdered for being an atheist, a christian, a muslim, etc, that strikes me as being as much about terrorizing a group of people as much as someone being killed for dressing up as the "wrong" sex.

[Bobboau]

NAMBLA, perfict example, there is a lot of research that suggests that pedophilia may have a genetic root, if that is the case then you do not chose to be a pedophile and therefore should be subject to hate crime protection. so if someone is found to be a pedophile and as a result he get's beaten should that be prosecuted as a hate crime or a simple assault?

Assault/murder are not legitimate protesting strategies, so I don't know what you are talking about, bobbo.

I didn't suggest them as good courses of action, I asked if those crimes would also, in addition to being simply illegal, be considered hate crimes as well.

[General Battuta]

NAMBLA, perfict example, there is a lot of research that suggests that pedophilia may have a genetic root, if that is the case then you do not chose to be a pedophile and therefore should be subject to hate crime protection. so if someone is found to be a pedophile and as a result he get's beaten should that be prosecuted as a hate crime or a simple assault?

Good question. Cite on the heritability of pedophilia, though? (I don't doubt it, but it needs evidence.)

I think pedophilia is probably a disorder, not an identity, simply because its expression generally involves harming an individual who cannot give consent.

[iamzack]

If pedophilia is a disease, then doesn't it count as a disability?

[General Battuta]

Probably so. I'm hardly an expert on the legal or philosophical implications of pedophilia, or of any other edge case.

Nonetheless, the need (if not the effectiveness) of special protections for historically oppressed minority groups has been well-argued in this thread. I have no idea whether pedophiles should be included in that class, but I have a pretty good idea of which groups should be.

[Bobboau]

If pedophilia is a disease, then doesn't it count as a disability?

bigot: "I hates me some cripples!"

what shall be done when he goes on a rampage assaulting handicapped people.

I don't see what your point is. unless you are saying pedophiles should be covered?

[Bobboau]

Good question. Cite on the heritability of pedophilia, though? (I don't doubt it, but it needs evidence.)

I think pedophilia is probably a disorder, not an identity, simply because its expression generally involves harming an individual who cannot give consent.

Blanchard, R. (2008). Cerebral white matter deficiencies in pedophilic men. Journal of Psychiatric Research, 42, 167–183

Structural brain abnormalities in the frontostriatal system and cerebellum in pedophilia. 'Journal of Psychiatric Research, 41, 753–762

Bogerts, B. (2007). Brain pathology in pedophilic offenders: Evidence of volume reduction in the right amygdala and related diencephalic structures. Archives of General Psychiatry, 64, 737–746.

yay wikipedia, I'll try to do better when I some more time.

[General Battuta]

Those are correlational studies. We'd need an actual analysis of heritability.

These studies do not necessarily even establish certain areas of the brain as being linked to pedophilia specifically; they could cause deficits in general control or underlie other social problems.

[redsniper]

Semantics time! Pedophile isn't the same as child molester. A child molester has actually taken action and committed a crime, but a pedophile not necessarily.

So... say you've got some guy that's attracted to kids, but would never actually mess with one. Someone gets wind of his 'preference' and kills him. Is that okay? Should that count as a hate crime?

[iamzack]

It's a sticky question. Pedophilia isn't a sexual orientation. If anything, it's a disease. It could be a hate crime if it counts as a disability, but that's about it.

Pedophiles should be in treatment, though, if it's a disability.

[NGTM-1R]

There is no reason not to cover them.

Are you objecting to having your right to kill pedophiles curtailed? 'cuz you are aware, you don't have that right anyways.

[iamzack]

IF pedophilia is not a disability, then they are not covered. IF it is, then they are.

I'm not objecting or supporting anything. They are if-then statements. That's all.

I just also added that if pedophilia is considered a disease/condition/whatever, then pedophiles should definitely be in a LOT of constant treatment, because they are more likely than the rest of us to commit the worst kinds of harm to a child.

[Bobboau]

what if it is found to be structurally similar to other sexual preferences? that is if the cause for it is the same as the cause for anything else just oriented in a different way. are you going to deny them protection under hate crime legislation because you find their preference untasteful?
what happens when someone who has had a child molested kills a pedophile who has done nothing? would that be a plain old murder (<-my preference), a hate crime, or something akin to man slaughter because the person in question was so enraged they couldn't think straight?

[Colonol Dekker]

Paedos deserve it though.

[TrashMan]

It's a sticky question. Pedophilia isn't a sexual orientation. If anything, it's a disease. It could be a hate crime if it counts as a disability, but that's about it.

Pedophiles should be in treatment, though, if it's a disability.

So wait...I'm curious now.

Why is pedophilia a desease, but homosexuality isn't? They both come down to "being sexually attracted to someone you really shouldn't be". They appear the same by their base underlying workings too.

[Turambar]

So wait...I'm curious now.

Why is pedophilia a desease, but homosexuality isn't? They both come down to "being sexually attracted to someone you really shouldn't be". They appear the same by their base underlying workings too.

Probably because being gay is pretty much harmless unless it's other people doing the harm.

[General Battuta]

It's a sticky question. Pedophilia isn't a sexual orientation. If anything, it's a disease. It could be a hate crime if it counts as a disability, but that's about it.

Pedophiles should be in treatment, though, if it's a disability.

So wait...I'm curious now.

Why is pedophilia a desease, but homosexuality isn't? They both come down to "being sexually attracted to someone you really shouldn't be". They appear the same by their base underlying workings too.

1. Homosexuality involves being attracted to a consenting adult.
2. Homosexuality has nothing to do with 'being sexually attracted to someone you shouldn't be'. Who says they shouldn't be? Homosexuality occurs in thousands of species.
3. There is no evidence here that they are remotely the same on the neural level. There's not even any evidence that pedophilia is heritable (though I'm sure it is to a degree) or that it has specific neural mechanisms.

You should try to gather reliable evidence, think about it clearly, and weigh its scientific meaning before leaping to conclusions.

[Janos]

It's a sticky question. Pedophilia isn't a sexual orientation. If anything, it's a disease. It could be a hate crime if it counts as a disability, but that's about it.

Pedophiles should be in treatment, though, if it's a disability.

So wait...I'm curious now.

Why is pedophilia a desease, but homosexuality isn't? They both come down to "being sexually attracted to someone you really shouldn't be". They appear the same by their base underlying workings too.

No

you see, there is a thing called "consent"

you can probably see where this is headed

[Bobboau]

and none of this is even the point, the question was if it was not something you chose to become, then shouldn't that mean they were a minority that fit the definition of that being used to be protected by hate crime legislation.

[iamzack]

If pedophilia's a disease/condition, then pedophiles who don't act on their urges deserve treatment and protection. Maybe that could count as a disability and someone who murders a pedophile for being a pedophile in cold blood could be charged with a hate crime.

But no jury would convict someone of a hate crime for killing a pedophile, so it's really a moot point.