Author Topic: Nodimrym  (Read 19867 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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Wouldn't call that inevitable.

 

Offline Droid803

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I wouldn't call it unnecessary.
Given the speed at which missiles fly, aspect seeking is rather important at longer ranges otherwise they'd be totally worthless and just miss completely.
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Offline Scotty

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Am I the only one here who has no problem with the Myrm's turn rate?  Seriously, people are *****ing about it being slow on the axes, but, once again, that isn't necessarily a ship-killer.  That difference in turn rate works both ways.  Sure, they'll get a shot at you, but then they end up behind you in the loop, and you get a shot at them too.  The six gun mounts and heavier hull and shields work well to your advantage there.

And does anyone ever actually get into a turning Tempest battle with the AI? :confused:  The Myrm is designed from an in-universe standpoint, not a meta influenced multiplayer standpoint.

 
In-universe, the AI is so dumb that simply slowing down means you get free shots at them =(

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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I like using twin Subachs and pretending i'm in the Defiant :)
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

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That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
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Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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The Harpoon isn't just a missile, it is by far the most important missile for a superiority fighter.

Biggest overstatement of FreeSpace fanon there. I'm a crap pilot, but I don't need to use Harpoons to survive on a battlefield. Why do you want Harpoons on a ship with six guns anyway?

Am I the only one here who has no problem with the Myrm's turn rate?

You are not alone. The Myrmidon's turn rate is perfect in my books. It's just that little bit faster than the Herc II, and that makes a huge difference in the way I pilot it. With slower ships like the Herc II and Ares, I usually hang back and lob missiles all over the place. With the Myrmidon, I become Leeroy Jenkins.
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Offline Iranon

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The Tornado can do things the Harpoon can't (1-salvo-kills of most craft, at longer range) and is still good enough in a dogfight. Its relative inefficiency against shields would be more annoying in craft that need to make every shot count because of a tiny loadout... but if those only have 1 bank it'll probably wield Tempests anyway. There are situations in which I miss the Harpoon, but they aren't common and I don't consider it a huge drawback.

I think Vip makes some very good points about the Myrmidon as an attempt to standardise fighters. The same characteristics make it attractive for special forces... sort if 'get in, blow up what we're supposed to blow up, get out asap. If we meet unexpected resistance we can probably deal with that too'.

 

Offline Vip

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Well, I checked the FS Wiki and it appears that the Myrmidon is the ONLY fighter in the GTVA that doesn't carry the Harpoon. It is a bit strange, won't you admit ? Then again, it is one of only four fighters (the others being Perseus, Seth and Tauret) that can carry the Stiletto II.

Then I looked at the GTM Harpoon entry. "The GTM-19 Harpoon is one of the newest missiles in the GTVA tactical arsenal." is what we can read in the intro. Since it's not from the Tech Room, I assume it's not a canon information. However, given that we know for sure that it is "the most sophisticated weapon in the GTVA arsenal", we can safely assume that it was developed in the recent past (several months, perhaps a couple of years before the Second Shivan Incursion). Who knows, maybe it was a response to the NTF Rebellion ?

Now, it's me speculating, but is it THAT improbable that the Harpoon was introduced after the Myrmidon ? That would explain why there was no initial compatibility. Now, why wasn't it refitted ? Who knows. Perhaps the "ultra-efficient hull configuration [that] provides space for three secondary weapon systems, a first for Terran-Vasudan fighters" thing prevented them from it ? Or perhaps the Myrmidon is supposed to rely primarily on primaries for dogfighting, thus making such a refit too costly and not effective enough in the eyes of the command ?

After all, it does have 6 guns - that's equal to the GTF Hercules, GTF Ares, GVF Tauret and second only to GTF Erinyes. All of those are so called heavy or assault fighters. Now, in-universe at least, a space superiority fighter with the primaries of an assault one surely is supposed to rely on its primaries, with the secondaries being reserved for more specialised or support tasks. Think Erinyes, but to a smaller extent.
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Offline Commander Zane

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Now, it's me speculating, but is it THAT improbable that the Harpoon was introduced after the Myrmidon ? That would explain why there was no initial compatibility. Now, why wasn't it refitted ? Who knows. Perhaps the "ultra-efficient hull configuration [that] provides space for three secondary weapon systems, a first for Terran-Vasudan fighters" thing prevented them from it ?
I could buy that, but wasn't the Interceptor also a "newly introduced" missile that the (even-at-the-time-horribly-aged) Apollo could use?

 
The compatibilities are all over the place for a lot of the spacecraft anyway, it's not too hard to imagine some excuse for the Harpoon to not work in the Myrmidon.  In any case, it's not a huge loss since it still has Tornado compatibility.


BTW, is there somewhere I can look up how the damage works for the weapons in Freespace?  Each Harpoon does 100 damage so two is 200 right?  But how do they OHKO something like a Perseus that has 350 shields and 265 armor then?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 02:01:09 pm by ChronoReverse »

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Teh Apollo is superior.
 
Science made it true.
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
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Offline Solatar

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The compatibilities are all over the place for a lot of the spacecraft anyway, it's not too hard to imagine some excuse for the Harpoon to not work in the Myrmidon.  In any case, it's not a huge loss since it still has Tornado compatibility.


BTW, is there somewhere I can look up how the damage works for the weapons in Freespace?  Each Harpoon does 100 damage so two is 200 right?  But how do they OHKO something like a Perseus that has 350 shields and 265 armor then?

That value is just the damage from the impact of the missile with the fighter - when it explodes, it also creates a blast which deals damage.

 
How is that calculated then?  I looked around in the modding forum but didn't find a damage formula for missiles =/

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Probably within the tables themselves and looking for the variable for blast damage.

 
Yeah, I've looked at the tables before but I must be interpreting the information wrong.

Harpoon:
$Armor Factor:                     1.0
$Shield Factor:                     0.8
$Subsystem Factor:                  0.5

Tornado:
$Armor Factor:                     2.0
$Shield Factor:                     1.0
$Subsystem Factor:                  0.3

This doesn't jive with my experience with the two missiles.  It seems to indicate that the Tornado does double the damage of Harpoons on bare hull and the shield damage of the Tornado is higher than the Harpoons?  Hull damage I can't say for sure, but shield damage for the Harpoon is almost always higher.

There's also no information how the damage is prorated over the blast since the damage is greater than the impact values.  I was hoping it was explained somewhere.

 

Offline Iranon

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My experience is that even against high-shield low-hull craft like Shivan fighters, Tornados are superior for 1-Salvo killing power... but they take up twice as much space and don't deal twice as much damage.

 

Offline Dragon

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They do, at least to armour, as their base damage is indentical to one Harpoon, provided that you hit directly with all warheads.

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Since it's not from the Tech Room, I assume it's not a canon information.

Tech room descriptions are canon.

Regardless of how much it may contradict other canon, all of the content of FS, ST, FS2, and OT (and MAYBE the demo of FS2) are canon.

 

Offline Kie99

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Since it's not from the Tech Room, I assume it's not a canon information.

Tech room descriptions are canon.

Regardless of how much it may contradict other canon, all of the content of FS, ST, FS2, and OT (and MAYBE the demo of FS2) are canon.

Hope this helps.
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Offline Commander Zane

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Finally, we have an explanation for the Myrmidon's massive volume:

"The Myrm comes equipped with an internal subspace generator which magically spews out a friggin' huge warhead. Unfortunately, this subspace generator is incompatible with the GTM Harpoon. As the Helios is rarely used, however, this feature is nearly useless..."
Quoted for epicness.