Author Topic: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan  (Read 8100 times)

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Offline Ford Prefect

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
If that's when it begun then the US started it by toppling the government of Iran to install the Shah then.

The Shah actually did have popular support for that. He blew it later.
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Offline Janos

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
Is anyone seriously surprised by this? I wonder how many other "secret wars" we're funding at the moment.......

Two to six in South America, one in the Phillipines, three in southeast Asia, and probably a couple in Eastern Europe.

Where in Eastern Europe?
lol wtf

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
Ex-soviet states that have since either joined NATO or made noises about so doing.
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Offline Kosh

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
And we're still running secret wars in those countries? Smooth.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
And we're still running secret wars in those countries? Smooth.

See, that's just it.

We weren't before, but we are now, probably with their blessing since they have enough trouble keeping their own houses in order without all those ex-Soviet-supported terroristy types and ex-KGB/local equivalent types making a mess of everything and corrupting the hell out of the system.
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Offline Janos

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
And we're still running secret wars in those countries? Smooth.

See, that's just it.

We weren't before, but we are now, probably with their blessing since they have enough trouble keeping their own houses in order without all those ex-Soviet-supported terroristy types and ex-KGB/local equivalent types making a mess of everything and corrupting the hell out of the system.

This sounds like a conspiracy theory. You could go ahead and explain how Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Hungary or Romania are in any ways anything like this. This sounds just complete bull****.

US secret wars in EU countries to keep away KGB thugs and terrorists, Jesus Christ. This just made my day.
lol wtf

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
This sounds like a conspiracy theory. You could go ahead and explain how Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Hungary or Romania are in any ways anything like this. This sounds just complete bull****.

US secret wars in EU countries to keep away KGB thugs and terrorists, Jesus Christ. This just made my day.

See, I don't care what it sounds like. I care what it is. And KGB? I did mention local equivalents. You have heard of the Stasi, right? They weren't exactly unique.

You also forget soviet-sponsored state terrorism too easily. The world is full of not-nice people. They're everywhere. We can only reach them in places that like us, though.
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Offline Janos

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
This sounds like a conspiracy theory. You could go ahead and explain how Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Hungary or Romania are in any ways anything like this. This sounds just complete bull****.

US secret wars in EU countries to keep away KGB thugs and terrorists, Jesus Christ. This just made my day.

See, I don't care what it sounds like. I care what it is. And KGB? I did mention local equivalents. You have heard of the Stasi, right? They weren't exactly unique.

You also forget soviet-sponsored state terrorism too easily. The world is full of not-nice people. They're everywhere. We can only reach them in places that like us, though.

Just provide proof, will you. I mean, 2009, Soviet terrorism, Stasi, US secret wars in EU countries, local equivalent of KGB in Eastern Europe... This is just too rich, I can't wait to see how you prove this :D

Also, extraordinary claims etc.

lol wtf

  

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
Just provide proof, will you. I mean, 2009, Soviet terrorism, Stasi, US secret wars in EU countries, local equivalent of KGB in Eastern Europe... This is just too rich, I can't wait to see how you prove this :D

Also, extraordinary claims etc.

*cough* You want proof? Who ran the Russian mob? The claim is not extraordinary. The claim is that this is where the vunerabilities are, for both sides to exploit if they want into or out of Europe with guns/bombs/whatever and ease.

These things are by nature designed to be impossible to prove. The point here is not that they're waging a war on those countries or even that the targets are in those countries; it's that they're in those countries because that's where the vunerablities are.

Your claim on the other hand is that everyone who ever used to work in intelligence or internal security in that area under the Old Regime ****ed off to never-never land.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 10:28:25 am by NGTM-1R »
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Offline mxlm

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
Also, extraordinary claims etc.
My fiery hatred for that Saganism outshines a thousand suns.
I will ask that you explain yourself. Please do so with the clear understanding that I may decide I am angry enough to destroy all of you and raze this sickening mausoleum of fraud down to the naked rock it stands on.

 

Offline Janos

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
Just provide proof, will you. I mean, 2009, Soviet terrorism, Stasi, US secret wars in EU countries, local equivalent of KGB in Eastern Europe... This is just too rich, I can't wait to see how you prove this :D

Also, extraordinary claims etc.

*cough* You want proof? Who ran the Russian mob? The claim is not extraordinary. The claim is that this is where the vunerabilities are, for both sides to exploit if they want into or out of Europe with guns/bombs/whatever and ease.

Which sides?

Your original claim was that US was running a secret war in Eastern Europe, right? The post was positively comparing these with the acts Blackwater do with Eastern Europe. This is quite different from standard intelligence operations or defending national interests abroad, unless you are willing to completely mangle the term.

I'd just love to see where in current Eastern Europe US and... someone else are engaged in this kind of hidden conflict.

Quote
These things are by nature designed to be impossible to prove.
Then how and why do you believe it and what do you base your beliefs on? You should right now have even circumstancial evidence and a framework to explain it.

Quote
The point here is not that they're waging a war on those countries or even that the targets are in those countries; it's that they're in those countries because that's where the vunerablities are.

Perhaps, but that's intelligence, not what the word secret war referred to. Maybe I misunderstood you.

Quote
Your claim on the other hand is that everyone who ever used to work in intelligence or internal security in that area under the Old Regime ****ed off to never-never land.

I did not claim so. Read the quote again.

I find it interesting that you refer to Cold war boogiemen without explicitly even naming a country. Then you cannot give any kind of sources at all. Your statement is de facto following:

Quote
US-sponsored organization is secretly operating in Afghanistan. Similar acts happen in many places, including Eastern Europe.
Where, how and when?
lol wtf

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
Then what is your claim? I do not refer to Cold War boogiemen; you should know better than that. I refer to the reality that which was built up a huge infrastructure in this area for the purpose, and though that which was is gone, it didn't take everything with it. You go where the targets are, and the targets will go here. They have to. Evidence is there; circumstantial, but if this is the best way of doing something, why assume it's not being done?

Or is your thesis now that everyone involved is incompetent?
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Offline Janos

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
Then what is your claim? I do not refer to Cold War boogiemen; you should know better than that. I refer to the reality that which was built up a huge infrastructure in this area for the purpose, and though that which was is gone, it didn't take everything with it. You go where the targets are, and the targets will go here. They have to. Evidence is there; circumstantial, but if this is the best way of doing something, why assume it's not being done?

Or is your thesis now that everyone involved is incompetent?

No, because I only initially questioned your claim because it sounded weird and to be honest had the makings of a good ol' conspiracy theory. But since you fail to support your statement with any kinds of facts - and actually fail to even name a single country - I do not think a reversal of burden of proof is really necessary here. I don't have to make a statement to question the validity of your statement.

And by the way, if you don't refer to Cold War boogiemen then why would you talk about KGB and Stasi?
lol wtf

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
Why, indeed? They built up infrastructure for terrorists, they trained people, they did all sorts of things. They're gone now. So is most of the infrastructure. The people...not really. They still have the knowledge locked in their heads that could be of great use to the West, or anyone else.  And even those who weren't specifically involved in that, they're out of work now. They need a way to make money. It's a buyer's market for learning the Secret Art of Not Being Seen and has been since the Soviet Union fell. You can learn much from such people, and they make good employees. Both ways.
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Offline Thaeris

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
Janos, you know who you're dealing with, right?

Even if you have a point, a good point, if NGTM-1R disagrees with you, you won't win as he'll continue to argue with you on some new tangent until the earth turns over on its axis...  :p
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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
Can you say: Clear and Present Danger?

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Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
Can you say: Clear and Present Danger?



Clear and Present Danger.

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Offline Janos

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Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
Can you say: Clear and Present Danger?



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lol wtf

 
Re: Blackwater helping run a secret war in Pakistan
Am I the only one that saw this and the first thing you thought was 'Wow. Those BWO guys are in over their heads.'
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