[Uchuujinsan]

What I did on insane was to protect the lemnos, and then fly circles around it while it shoots down the dragons... didn't find any other good way.
Btw, has anyone ever managed to protect every lambda transport in that mission on insane?

[General Battuta]

Don't think you can.

[Rodo]

I made it on medium, I've never been able to pass through the 3rd mission on insane

[BengalTiger]

If your wingmen die they probably die alone, far from the rest of the team, gang banged by Shivans. A good way to prevent that is having them form up on your wing every time they complete an assignment (such as killing a wing of bombers, a cruiser or disarming a capship). While they are coming back into formation, you, the squadron leader must look for the next most important thing to shoot at. As soon as all ships under your command are pretty close (500 meters or so would be enough, waiting until they take their positions takes time), give the next attack order.

Now the Shivans are facing one or multiple wings attacking in a well organized wave. They rely on the opposite to succeed.

As for killing Dragons...

-8x Maxim and some kind of shooting skill will take at least one down before it even gets in range.
-4 Trebuchets launched at a wing will score one or 2 hits (and Dragons don't often survive these)
-Changing targets rapidly to shoot only the nearest Dragon also works when you're outnumbered
-Having your wingmen in formation, waiting until you get in range of missiles and giving the C->3->9 order usually gets the Dragons under heavier fire than they can handle, at least until the dogfight begins.
-Having your wingmen armed with 8x Maxim gives good results too, as long as they're in formation with you when you give the order to shoot.

[Aardwolf]

I usually order wingmen to protect that Mentu, then rush ahead and try to get the Thanatos kill, then protect the Lemnos.

[NGTM-1R]

Its handling is supposed to be comparable to the Perseus, I believe. Fortunately, the AI doesn't seem to know this... 

No. Just no.

[Commander Zane]

Its handling is supposed to be comparable to the Perseus, I believe. Fortunately, the AI doesn't seem to know this...  

No. Just no.

Yes. Just yes, actually.

The Perseus's Rotation Time is 3.3 on all axis (Pl?), the Aeshma's is 3.3 on X and Y, and 3.7 on its Z axis.

[NGTM-1R]

Yes. Just yes, actually.

The Perseus's Rotation Time is 3.3 on all axis (Pl?), the Aeshma's is 3.3 on X and Y, and 3.7 on its Z axis.

And yet even on Insane where the Aeshma gets bonuses in AI hands, the Perseus handles it with it ease.

[Commander Zane]

Dev problem then, since they almost maneuver exactly the same with the exception of one axis yet fly like retards no matter the difficulty.

[Aardwolf]

What are it's angular accel / max linear speed/accel?

[Commander Zane]

In Table-readable terms please.

[Thaeris]

This is very interesting, I must say... I'm pretty confident in deciphering the table terms, but an experienced tabler would be a better conveyor of information. I really think it's an AI thing, because the Aeshma really doesn't look like it should be too bad:

Code: [Select]

$Density:                       1
$Damp:                          0.2
$Rotdamp:                       0.4
$Max Velocity:          17.0, 17.0, 68.0
$Rotation time:         3.3, 3.3, 3.7
$Rear Velocity:         20.0
$Forward accel:         3.0
$Forward decel:         1.5
$Slide accel:           2.0
$Slide decel:           2.0

Here's the Perseus for comparison:

Code: [Select]

$Density:                       1
$Damp:                          0.15
$Rotdamp:                       0.35
$Max Velocity: 0.0, 0.0, 80.0
$Rotation time: 3.3, 3.3, 3.3
$Rear Velocity: 0.0
$Forward accel: 2.0
$Forward decel: 1.5
$Slide accel: 0.0
$Slide decel: 0.0

So, is the Aeshma dangerous? Yes. The Shivan pilots just clearly lack motivation... 

[Thaeris]

Double post to clarify information for those who may not understand the information from the ships.tbl:

NOTE: use the Wiki and look up "ships.tbl". Then, next time you decide to crack into the FS2/FSO ship VPs, you'll know what you're looking at. 

The density values for both fighters are the same, so impacts do the same amount of damage to each. The Perseus has a forward damping factor 0.05 units less than the Aeshma's as well as a rotational damping factor also 0.05 units less than the Aeshma's, so it handles a bit more "snappily." But not by much...

Obviously the Perseus is fast, but the Aeshma can move laterally in x- or y-, up or down, at 17m/s. It can also move backwards at 20m/s... If the AI knew how to use this in close quaters, you'd be in for a much, much harder fight.

Despite the slightly higer acceleration damper, the Aeshma actually has a higher acceleration value. I'm not sure how this works in game as I havn't seen the actual coding to process the numbers from the table (but be pretty sure they're simple algorithms...). It also has acceleration values up or down comparable to the Perseus' forward acceleration, though the damper again compromises those figures. The deceleration value is the same, though the Perseus would in fact decelerate faster than the Aeshma due to the damper.

The moral of the story? In terms of conventional maneuvers, the Perseus would wail on the Aeshma, though it would still be a good fight. Add in a wicked AI or a human player (both of the same skill, of course. Now where did we put Quantum Delta's evil twin?...) and the Aeshma's lateral/backwards flight characeristics and you've leveled the playing field by a significant margin. I'd like to see that one...

[NGTM-1R]

Obviously the Perseus is fast, but the Aeshma can move laterally in x- or y-, up or down, at 17m/s. It can also move backwards at 20m/s... If the AI knew how to use this in close quaters, you'd be in for a much, much harder fight.

At that particular speed I'm not convinced it matters. The AI is quite capable of handling pure lateral/vertical manuvers, as anyone who played FS1 on Insane can tell you about Scorpions, but I think it needs more to work with.

[QuantumDelta]

Blackdove was very slightly better than me btw Thaeris, in terms of dogfights we could be stuck on eachothers tails until one of us made a mistake or he eventually caught me (damned joystick throttle control), for extreme periods..and pretty much most players can 'drag out' a fight in a 1on1 by just turning as hard as they can.

The two fighters would probably be eternally turning if the input systems were exactly matched.

protecting the transports in apoc IS possible but realistically only if you're planning on not making it to the jump node and/or sacrifice other ships.
Apoc is one of the only missions where I 'accept' not getting a perfect outcome
If you mean saving them from the super nova then 'fraid you can't, well unless the disabling/disarming and not destroying the two cains bug still works >.>

[Aardwolf]

Maybe it's the 'no dynamic goals' flag...  IIRC that causes ships to not try to dodge shots...

Or is that a FRED-side flag and not a ship flag?

[BengalTiger]

Maybe it's the 'no dynamic goals' flag...  IIRC that causes ships to not try to dodge shots...

Or is that a FRED-side flag and not a ship flag?

IIRC it's a FRED flag.

And AI doesn't put too much effort into dodging shots until it gets the first hit that damages it's hull.

[Rodo]

And AI doesn't put too much effort into dodging shots until it gets the first hit that damages it's hull.

You sure about that? I've seen dragons dodge even before getting hit at all.

[Commander Zane]

Using Fury's AI? I've never seen that.

[Rodo]

when you fire at them, they accelerate, not a crazy way of dodging but..

and technically if you fire a missile, they will dodge, that's dodging before getting hit

or maybe I just suck and tend to fire on the surroundings a lot.