Author Topic: Lt. Polpolion Says...  (Read 16153 times)

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Offline Snail

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Lt. Polpolion Says...
ITT we discuss whether or not Lt. Polpolion, a junior GTVA officer in training, has a sound grasp of strategic theory in context of the Sol theater.


At the war games, Lt. Polpolion says "Holding ships in reserve is a wise tactic, even if my force is outnumbered at the outset." Discuss.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
I say. When the heck did you get over 15k posts?
 
Also this is too open a topic. Focus of force is my favourite tactic.
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Offline Angelus

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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...

Lt. Polpolion says "Holding ships in reserve is a wise tactic, even if my force is outnumbered at the outset."

Smart move.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
Does Lt. Polpolion know that Admiral Wolf stole his nametag?

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
EVERYONE stole his nametag! Srsly, he stopped caring by the time the Galatea got blown up.


At the wargames, Lt. Polpolion says, "I will commit my Bellerophon and Chimera corvettes only once enemy warships have been committed. Attacking installations allows me to force this ideal situation." Discuss.

 
Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
Well, a good flanking manuver can turn the tide of battle, even if the numbers are against you. Not sure how well that tranlsates to 3D space combat though.

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
At the wargames, Lt. Polpolion says, "I will commit my Bellerophon and Chimera corvettes only once enemy warships have been committed. Attacking installations allows me to force this ideal situation." Discuss.

so i herd u want 2 b a shiven.
seams 2 werk well enough 4 dem so y not?

Though to be honest, I don't think attacking installations (with fighters/bombers) forces the enemy to commit warships, just more fighters. With the effectiveness of fighters in the FSverse, the best answer to a fighter/bomber attack is more fighters, and the best answer to a warship attack is more bombers.
Not sure how you can really get your opponent to commit his warships if they know they're just gonna be fodder for your flying beam cannons. I guess you'd have to commit a really dedicated anti-fighter cruiser or something that would swat down fighters by the droves (something like an Aeolus with ULTRA AAAs on all its turrets) to force the enemy to really have to send in a warship to deal with it.

Well, a good flanking manuver can turn the tide of battle, even if the numbers are against you. Not sure how well that tranlsates to 3D space combat though.

3D means that you can flank from above and below as well as from the sides, that's all.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
Worth noting that with Fury AI an Aeolus can eat strike craft at an alarming rate, and larger warships can defend themselves very well against bomber strikes.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
Plus, it just takes a small cruiser with a SGreen/what have you to threaten an installation.  Sending a cruiser is generally going to either bring in bombers (which can get shot down pretty easily) or escalate with warships.  When the warships arrive, jump the Corvettes in.

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
Plus, it just takes a small cruiser with a SGreen/what have you to threaten an installation.  Sending a cruiser is generally going to either bring in bombers (which can get shot down pretty easily) or escalate with warships.  When the warships arrive, jump the Corvettes in.

SGreens don't threaten anything except for freighters and (Fenris cruisers).
Not with that retarded 45 second reload of theirs, which gives ample time for fighters to just stilleto/trebuchet/maxim (or whatever their UEF equivalent is) it out of existence.
Anything with competent fighter escort should be able to take the turret down before it can fire more than two shots or so...(otherwise, oooooh boy they're screwed against Lilith cruisers)

Worth noting that with Fury AI an Aeolus can eat strike craft at an alarming rate, and larger warships can defend themselves very well against bomber strikes.

The Aeolus I don't doubt, though don't stuff like the Hecate have way too many blind spots where bombers can just sit? Especially if you stop the turrets-shooting-through-the-ship glitch with check-hull. Bombers have free reign approaching the Hecate from behind (actually, that extends to the Raynor and Titan too).

I will admit that the AI often isn't "smart" enough to do that and will just beeline in and promptly get torn up...
But deploying your big ships first kinda goes against "Holding ships in reserve is a wise tactic, even if my force is outnumbered at the outset."
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 08:07:39 pm by Droid803 »
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
Plus, it just takes a small cruiser with a SGreen/what have you to threaten an installation.  Sending a cruiser is generally going to either bring in bombers (which can get shot down pretty easily) or escalate with warships.  When the warships arrive, jump the Corvettes in.

This is dependent on the installation not having similar guns of its own, which is something we can't really swear to in the context of WIH.
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
War games eh?

Quote
Lt. Polpolion says "Holding ships in reserve is a wise tactic, even if my force is outnumbered at the outset."

Always designate some forces as reinforcements, but do not hesitate to use them too.

If your initial battle lines start to crumble, a concentrated deployment of the reinforcements can turn the tide of the battle. But if you delay the reinforcements too long, the enemy will have a chance to destroy your main deployments at leisure, gaining a foothold in both occupied area and morale, and you'll be unlikely to recover the engagement.

This is why a good reinforcement should consist of units with rapid response time and firepower. Heavy fighter wings or gunships are ideal for this role, although fast capital ships with good weaponry definitely make for good heavy metal flanking units, should you have a surplus of cap ships.

Meanwhile the main deployment units should have good staying power so that they aren't immediately swept away, which gives you as a fleet commander some grace time to make sound judgement as to when and where you should deploy your reinforcement units.

Where your units start to lose, deploy the reinforcements or part of them. Conversely, where your enemies' battle lines start to show signs of wavering, concentrate your efforts there. If you manage to destroy or rout units at one point of your enemy's deployment, it will disrupt their plans, reduce their ability to support each other, and also wreak havoc on their morale (which is sadly not simulated in FS2_Open...).


Also, as far as war games go, remember this: If you do not know what to do, flank them. If you do not know where to flank, flank from the left side. Almost uniformly, any firm decision will turn out better than indecisiveness.

Quote
At the wargames, Lt. Polpolion says, "I will commit my Bellerophon and Chimera corvettes only once enemy warships have been committed. Attacking installations allows me to force this ideal situation." Discuss.

Choosing the battlefield will give you an immediate advantage, as you are in control of the engagement and can select to either withdraw or continue the engagement at your will. Therefore offensive strategy is favourable to defensive. If your enemy has fixed locations they must defend, they do offer an excellent way to force your enemy to commit into an engagement under your rules, or forfeit their assets at that location.

Of course, this only truly works if your supply lines and forces are sufficient to defeat the defenses that can be mustered to protect the installations. If you can not mount large enough assault to provide decisive victory, the enemy installations can just as easily turn into death traps for your fleet as you continue to hammer them, yet they do not fall. In this case it becomes a war of attrition, something that is undesireable for both attacker and defender; war of attrition is usually devastating to unit morale and economy on both sides. It has sometimes been utilized by ruthless commanders who simply have the leisure of vastly outnumbering the enemy - however, even they usually find it very inefficient to simply use massed attacks against capable enemies using carefully formulated strategies and positions.

Conversely, even if your forces are outnumbered, you should still not settle on a defensive warfare, but actively harass the attacker by striking at their logistics, and if possible separating portions of the hostile forces from their main forces, then wearing the isolated units out by continuous attacks.  (Again, sadly, fatigue is not modelled in FS2_Open...)

However, this is hard in FreeSpace warfare due to jump capabilities - the best you can hope is to lure the enemy into a system through a jump node, then blockade the node so that no supplies can be delivered to the isolated group, but this requires that you have at least two systems at your control and that your enemy can be hoodwinked into taking the bait.

If this is not possible, then your best choice when being outnumbered would be to use hit and run attacks against more or less isolated parts of the enemy fleet and evacuate as many of your fixed installations as possible, so that you do not need to necessarily stretch your resources to hold the installations. Loss of an installation can be a blow to industrial capacity and to morale, but getting the capable people out of them will leave you an option to abandon them, should it prove necessary, ie. if the enemy is trying to force you to meet them at a battle field of their choosing and the value of the installation is outweighed by the price associated in keeping it.

Of course, this could potentially enable you to manufacture traps of great cunning - by masquerading almost abandoned installations as fully functional, you could perhaps lure the enemy troops where you want them, while still retaining the option to disengage and abandon the installation if the battle does not turn into your favour.


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Offline Rodo

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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
In an universe where you can be "there" in a matter of seconds ("there" would be...anywere in the same system) by just jumping away, I would say keeping ships on reserve is a must, not a tactic.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
Since you could run away just as fast or nearly so, perhaps not. :P
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Offline -Norbert-

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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
This discussion, especially Herra Tohtori's mention of laying out traps, made me wonder how much the GTVA and UEF are trying to infiltrate the enemy and spy on them.
The UEF will probably have big problems getting anyone into the GTVA terretory, but the GTVA is already inside sol, which might enable them to get a spy onto UEF soil/ships/installations. Then there would also be the matter of the ships that defected at the end of AoA. Maybe someone on board is only playing along, while really supplying the GTVA with information.

THen there is also the matter of people from the UEF selling themselfs out. Not that unlikely a possibility if you live in a faction that seems to be losing the war.

Wtih information sources like those a trap you lay out could easily turn out to become a trap you stepped into.

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
The UEF will probably have big problems getting anyone into the GTVA terretory, but the GTVA is already inside sol, which might enable them to get a spy onto UEF soil/ships/installations.
As much as I hate to admit it (being pro-GTVA and all), there is still the possibility of defections post-14th Battlegroup. I mean, every damn family in the GTVA would be able to trace their roots to a place on Earth somewhere, it just seems morally objectionable to invade Sol, unless you're mildly versed in military thought (thankfully there are a lot of those blokes walking around, seeing as the Tevs have been through two wars previously).

The whole matter of defections is largely a double edged sword, in my opinion, with it siding a *little* more with the UEF. Ultimately, they're fighting for their homes, and no matter how much of a flowery culture you come from, you're going to fight like a mother****er before some dickhead takes your system. As opposed to the fact that, well, the UEF is losing the war, and while they might be able to keep the Tevs out of Earth for a while, ultimately cannot stand up to Alliance toe-to-toe (therefore, the possibility of UEF insiders arises, as you pointed out).

 
Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
Unless Command makes some incredibly bad tactical mistake that results in the loss of the Solace or mission-priority vessels; such as the Orestes.

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
As much as I hate to admit it (being pro-GTVA and all), there is still the possibility of defections post-14th Battlegroup. I mean, every damn family in the GTVA would be able to trace their roots to a place on Earth somewhere, it just seems morally objectionable to invade Sol, unless you're mildly versed in military thought (thankfully there are a lot of those blokes walking around, seeing as the Tevs have been through two wars previously).

Well, the GTVA propaganda machine could just paint the UEF as some big bad government which has taken over Sol.
They're not fighting against their homes but crazy/evil people that took over it.
We're liberating our home planet from the grips of a creepy religious dictatorship run by a bunch of self-appointed old men!
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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
What the heck are you people talking about?
Sig nuked! New one coming soon!

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Lt. Polpolion Says...
What the heck are you people talking about?

Have you played Blue Planet?

Do you know what forum you're in?