[Titan]

... even I'M smart enough to know autism is something you're born with, and I HAVE it...

[MP-Ryan]

Vaccination is one of those scientific topics that's just like evolution:  doesn't matter how many facts you smack the fanatics in the face with, there will still be idiots that insist it's wrong for completely unscientific reasons.

And to the poster that thinks they get sick more often after getting the flu vaccine:  vaccination, by definition, causes your immune system to go into an active state which can cause you to manifest symptoms even in the absence of illness.  Believe it or not, the uncomfortable symptoms you experience during illness are usually the result of your body's attempt to fight the illness rather than the illness itself.  By way of example, fever, runny nose, cough, and excess mucus production are all a result of the body's attempt to fight a cold rather than the cold virus itself.

[Kosh]

... even I'M smart enough to know autism is something you're born with, and I HAVE it...

There's been quite a few studies recently that indicate a very strong genetic factor.


The real problem with it is there's sort of a lag effect, symptoms don't show until the middle of the vaccination cycle. At least with higher functioning it is that way.

[Grizzly]

since when is autism A) useful or B) a personality trait?

Autism-spectrum disorder people typically excel in certain areas, such as math. There is also a growing belief it's simply a different personality type...though I think it's unlikely it'll be reclassified from a disorder since it does hamper one's ability to interact with others.

So does shyness. Personally I do not experience an 'hampering with my ability to interact with others'. It appears I have grown past it or something.

Bassicly, the reason why I called it a personality trait is because a 'disorder' (Which it 'oficially' is) just sounds way too negative, especially as it has some great positive sides. When it is called a 'disorder', it sounds like something is broken. There is nothing broken, it is just wired differently.

[QuantumDelta]

From a 'normal' perspective, Autism, especially on the more hefty side of the diagnoses could most definitely be perceived as broken.
Autism is badly defined and some of the mild aspects of it could be expressed as a slight personality disposition rather than a disorder.

[Grizzly]

My viewpoints are more or less defined by the 'disorder' I got, PDD-NOS (which translates as: You have some sort of disorder we do not have a specific definition for). You are right, there are much heavier cases. I do not mean something like asperger, but like those people which are completely locked up in themselves and make the same movement all day long.

Then there is also the kid from The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time... I think his case counts as a disorder, but he is simply too awesome to be put in the same group as the mass killing psycho's.

If you have not read that book, go read it now. It's awesome.

[iamzack]

since when is autism A) useful or B) a personality trait?

Autism-spectrum disorder people typically excel in certain areas, such as math. There is also a growing belief it's simply a different personality type...though I think it's unlikely it'll be reclassified from a disorder since it does hamper one's ability to interact with others.

So does shyness. Personally I do not experience an 'hampering with my ability to interact with others'. It appears I have grown past it or something.

Bassicly, the reason why I called it a personality trait is because a 'disorder' (Which it 'oficially' is) just sounds way too negative, especially as it has some great positive sides. When it is called a 'disorder', it sounds like something is broken. There is nothing broken, it is just wired differently.

So, to use fiction as an example, Rainman wasn't disordered, he was just quirky?

[Grizzly]

since when is autism A) useful or B) a personality trait?

Autism-spectrum disorder people typically excel in certain areas, such as math. There is also a growing belief it's simply a different personality type...though I think it's unlikely it'll be reclassified from a disorder since it does hamper one's ability to interact with others.

So does shyness. Personally I do not experience an 'hampering with my ability to interact with others'. It appears I have grown past it or something.

Bassicly, the reason why I called it a personality trait is because a 'disorder' (Which it 'oficially' is) just sounds way too negative, especially as it has some great positive sides. When it is called a 'disorder', it sounds like something is broken. There is nothing broken, it is just wired differently.

So, to use fiction as an example, Rainman wasn't disordered, he was just quirky?

My viewpoints are more or less defined by the 'disorder' I got, PDD-NOS (which translates as: You have some sort of disorder we do not have a specific definition for). You are right, there are much heavier cases. I do not mean something like asperger, but like those people which are completely locked up in themselves and make the same movement all day long.

Then there is also the kid from The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time... I think his case counts as a disorder, but he is simply too awesome to be put in the same group as the mass killing psycho's.

If you have not read that book, go read it now. It's awesome.

But anyway, thanks for mentioning Rainman. Someone mentioned it to me before, and I completely forgot about it untill you brought it up. It's really a film I got to watch.

[iamzack]

NOS disorders are bull**** too. basically a way to diagnose people with a disorder they dont have any symptoms of.

[karajorma]

By way of example, fever, runny nose, cough, and excess mucus production are all a result of the body's attempt to fight a cold rather than the cold virus itself.

Hang on a sec. While I agree with the others it was my understanding that many viruses and bacteria deliberately stimulate the cough and sneeze reflex in order to spread themselves.

[Liberator]

You say "stimulate" like it's a conscience act.

[Scourge of Ages]

You say "stimulate deliberately" like it's a conscious act.

Fixed! Hope ya don' mind.

[MP-Ryan]

By way of example, fever, runny nose, cough, and excess mucus production are all a result of the body's attempt to fight a cold rather than the cold virus itself.

Hang on a sec. While I agree with the others it was my understanding that many viruses and bacteria deliberately stimulate the cough and sneeze reflex in order to spread themselves.

It's a synergistic effect.  Coughing and sneezing is the way the immune systems clears foreign bodies trapped in mucus (the excess production of which it also stimulates in order to trap said foreign bodies).  Some viruses and bacteria take advantage of this to further their spread.  But the cough and sneeze is still a symptom of infection, not directly caused by it - a virus or bacterium that stimulates those sorts of responses would do so by triggering an immune response, not the neurological compulsion to cough or sneeze.

And Liberator, the act is evolutionary (those who have a shaky understanding of the natural selection mechanism tend to mix this up with conscious desire) - those bacteria and viruses that had this property are the ones more likely to propagate, and become the dominant strains, the more virulent of which eventually become dominant themselves until the shaky point between virulence and optimal host condition reach a sort of equilibrium.  The best pathogen is the one that stimulates its host to pass it along, but doesn't actually harm the host significantly.  This is why both rhinoviruses (the common cold) and various mild forms of influenza are so prevalent.

[Bobboau]

and mega doom viruses like Ebola are rare.

[General Battuta]

You say "stimulate" like it's a conscience act.

Viruses that develop this ability survive and propagate.

Viruses that don't are outperformed and go extinct.

Welcome to evolution - the blind mechanisms of inheritance produce shockingly complex behavior and systems.

[karajorma]

It's a synergistic effect.  Coughing and sneezing is the way the immune systems clears foreign bodies trapped in mucus (the excess production of which it also stimulates in order to trap said foreign bodies).  Some viruses and bacteria take advantage of this to further their spread.  But the cough and sneeze is still a symptom of infection, not directly caused by it - a virus or bacterium that stimulates those sorts of responses would do so by triggering an immune response, not the neurological compulsion to cough or sneeze.

Fair enough. That makes sense.

[Liberator]

You say "stimulate" like it's a conscience act.

Viruses that develop this ability survive and propagate.

Viruses that don't are outperformed and go extinct.

Welcome to evolution - the blind mechanisms of inheritance produce shockingly complex behavior and systems.

Wasn't what I meant.  I meant that the way he said that made it sound the the virus made a conscious decision intellectually to stimulate the sneeze/cough reflex.  You know?  Like it's sentient or something.

[karajorma]

That's cause I know that MP-Ryan isn't a retard and would understand exactly what I meant without me needing to use a ridiculously complicated but linguistically correct sentence.

[MP-Ryan]

and mega doom viruses like Ebola are rare.

Indeed.  Ebola infects itself out of existence with every outbreak.  It's too virulent for its own good.

[Tangent] The most successful human viruses belong to the herpes and human papilloma families - they are virtually never cleared by the immune system, have long periods of dormancy, and spread rapidly during flare-ups before returning to dormancy while infecting multiple new hosts in the process. [/tangent]

[General Battuta]

In fact the most successful human-hosted microorganisms are completely benign.