[Scotty]

With a little bit of scripting (like the Sath opeing up before even clearing the jumppoint) the whole battle was over in 20 seconds....
If you'd like I can attach the mission file, so you can see for yourself.

See, this emphasizes the fallacy in your set up.  You're assuming that everything will go perfectly for the Sath, and perfectly wrong for any opponents.  Combat does not work that way.

[General Battuta]

With a little bit of scripting (like the Sath opeing up before even clearing the jumppoint) the whole battle was over in 20 seconds....
If you'd like I can attach the mission file, so you can see for yourself.

See, this emphasizes the fallacy in your set up.  You're assuming that everything will go perfectly for the Sath, and perfectly wrong for any opponents.  Combat does not work that way.

le yawn

Just like in real life, the scenarios that actually arise will probably be vastly more unpredictable and weird than anything gamed out beforehand. Trying to find any single definitive scenario is futile.

Nor are Shivan capabilities post-Capella known or understood.

[-Norbert-]

With a little bit of scripting (like the Sath opeing up before even clearing the jumppoint) the whole battle was over in 20 seconds....
If you'd like I can attach the mission file, so you can see for yourself.

See, this emphasizes the fallacy in your set up.  You're assuming that everything will go perfectly for the Sath, and perfectly wrong for any opponents.  Combat does not work that way.

Not at all.
Because in my little FRED example the Sath jumped into the waiting guns of the GTVA ships. Hardly a perfect setting for the Sath, right?
But despite the Sathanas jumping into waiting guns it still took only between 8 and 11 % damage (I repeated the experiment three times... each time the same outcome, except the 3 % variation in the damage the Sath took).
The only thing that might be a problem for the Shivans is, jumping in at exactly the right distance. And exactly the right distance is still a very big window, considering the massive range of the BFRed.

The jump-in point is the only point of failure. If the Sathanas jumps in within range and angle to hit the GTVA ships with her main beams, it's game over. There is no room for best or worst case. It's simply over.
The AWACS might change that outcome, but since the 14th battlegroup didn't have one with them, that's a moot point.

The scripting I did wasn't to make the battle more favourbly for the Sathanas, but simply to overcome the stupidness of the AI.
Why should the Sathanas blast the debris of an already destroyed ship, when there are other ships in range, that can still fight?

[-Sara-]

Got to agree with Battuta's latter comment. Heck, for all we know the Shivans might be able to pluck and delete ships out of time and space if they truly want to. The moment they really feel threatened who knows what warfare they can unleash.

[SomeGuyWithAName]

I always assumed the Sivans were so hellbent on blowing up the visitors from another dimension because they wanted to fulfill their role as "preserves through destruction". They didn't want to have them return with knowledge of another universe, out of the same reason you don't want people traveling back in time and creating paradoxes - sort of a "they are now tainted with knowledge of our universe, and that will change the fate of their universe if we let the return."

But, hell, I don't know. The Shivans are still a mystery.

The deepnes thing.. I never even put that much attention to it, but I guess it is pretty important.

Just makes me want to play WiH2 and BP3 all the more. The only thing I'm afraid of may be that whatever the answers are, they will probably never live up to the mystery - just because the mystery is that awesome.

[Aardwolf]

[/lurk]



(Because this seems like the most appropriate thread)

Crazy speculation...
Suppose the Tevs give up on preserving Sol's infrastructure (no idea why they would do this, but w/e). Suppose they just say to heck with it, and they bomb the crap out of Earth. Maybe not as bad as what the Shivans did to Vasuda Prime, but enough to cause some extinctions. Gefs get mad, and rat out Steele to the Vasudans.

How unlikely?

[lurk]

[Scotty]

VERY unlikely.  On the order of "it won't happen, ever."  One of the biggest reasons the GTVA instigated the current war is the massive industrial base of Sol (repeatedly stated to be on par with the entire rest of the GTVA by itself), along with Ubuntu being an ideological bomb waiting to go off.  The fact that Admiral Steele is willing to damage that infrastructure to end the war more quickly speaks volumes to how badly the war is perceived to be going back home.*

And this all leaves aside that the population of the GTVA would go berserk if the government that promised to protect them from Shivans went and nuked to hell and back the most significant bastion of human population and culture in existence.

*NEW THEORY:  Steele launched the campaign against the infrastructure close to Earth and Luna specifically to draw out the toughest and boldest (or brashest) of the UEF fleet to open them to defeat in detail.

[Ypoknons]

Outside of the Fedayeen and the special project, I tend to frame the GTVA's side of the conflict in terms of profit and loss: how much can we gain for much how of our own forces? Destroying UEF infrastructure tends to reduce the former; losing your own forces reduce the later.

[Kosh]

VERY unlikely.  On the order of "it won't happen, ever."  One of the biggest reasons the GTVA instigated the current war is the massive industrial base of Sol (repeatedly stated to be on par with the entire rest of the GTVA by itself), along with Ubuntu being an ideological bomb waiting to go off.  The fact that Admiral Steele is willing to damage that infrastructure to end the war more quickly speaks volumes to how badly the war is perceived to be going back home.*

And this all leaves aside that the population of the GTVA would go berserk if the government that promised to protect them from Shivans went and nuked to hell and back the most significant bastion of human population and culture in existence.

*NEW THEORY:  Steele launched the campaign against the infrastructure close to Earth and Luna specifically to draw out the toughest and boldest (or brashest) of the UEF fleet to open them to defeat in detail.

Damage but not completely destroy. Notice he never went after Sol's anti-matter production facilities (around mercury or venus), most likely because it is expensive to replace and fairly valuable, whereas the basic logistical facilities and factories that were bombed on Luna can be replaced in a matter of months once the war ends. The UEF also lost control of Jupiter, Neptune and I think Saturn, which cut them off from their main sources of fuel. The strike on Earth's orbital facilities greatly exacerbated that situation.

[crizza]

Sol's antimatter production facilities...We talked about it and I think it was said, that they are not only hard to find, but even are not really around mercury or venus.

[Kosh]

Sol's antimatter production facilities...We talked about it and I think it was said, that they are not only hard to find, but even are not really around mercury or venus.

Since that is where explosives for vital war materials are being produced there has to be regular shipments that can be tracked.

[crizza]

Sol's antimatter production facilities...We talked about it and I think it was said, that they are not only hard to find, but even are not really around mercury or venus.

Since that is where explosives for vital war materials are being produced there has to be regular shipments that can be tracked.

That was countered with "Space is a damn huge place and you can not simply track everything in Sol.
So why haven't the Imp or the one ship of Serkr simply jumped after the Indus, if subspace tracking is that easy?

[Dragon]

If they tracked Indus, they'd know it jumped into the sun, so nobody wanted to chase it.
Though I'm not working on the stroy, so I don't know.

[The E]

Subspace tracking is easy, IF you have an emplaced sensor net (Which is why the GTVA had to go through 18 months of uphill battles until the battle of Artemis Station, because 3rd Fleet was able to track their movements all the way).

[-Norbert-]

But does subspace tracking also work close to the sun? I wouldn't be surprised if the massive gravity of a very close star and all the radiation and heat would make finding or tracking anything there very hard. Unless of course listening is your speciallity

[Destiny]

I think it's safe to say the Sun and planets are massive subspace sinks.

[Dragon]

It does. On the other hand, would you like to follow a ship that just jumped into a star at such distance it will not be able to recover, nor charge it's drive in time to escape being fried?
Because all GTVA ships on site had their drives not charged and didn't wanted to risk getting burned to crisps, none of them was really eager to follow. Nobody really knew that Maysaf will arrive.

[Kosh]

If they tracked Indus, they'd know it jumped into the sun, so nobody wanted to chase it.
Though I'm not working on the stroy, so I don't know.

It's been a while since I've played but wasn't the Indus somewhat trashed by the jump to the sun?

[Deadly in a Shadow]

If they tracked Indus, they'd know it jumped into the sun, so nobody wanted to chase it.
Though I'm not working on the stroy, so I don't know.

It's been a while since I've played but wasn't the Indus somewhat trashed by the jump to the sun?

It was/ is.

[-Norbert-]

It was damaged by the battle and by making a crash jump, so even if they had jumped to a save location they'd still have been in a bad shape. Nothing live threatening (unless the GTVA came after them), but still bad.