[General Battuta]

Well, Petrarch had a suggestion and the Vasudans didn't take it very well. 

I'm sure a Vasudan would tell you that it was a question more of priorities than of absolute strategy. With an overwhelming Shivan menace Out There, the Terran economy foundering, and the fleet clearly not up to the task of 80 Sathani, you've got an obvious short-term problem to address. Investing in a long-term venture to go home to a system of uncertain resources and sophistication is something of a gamble.

[Colonol Dekker]

I bet the Terran contingent were a bit miffed to say the least when probes revealed that half a century of bank account interest wasn't awaiting them. . . . .

[Delta_V]

Well, Petrarch had a suggestion and the Vasudans didn't take it very well. 

I'm sure a Vasudan would tell you that it was a question more of priorities than of absolute strategy. With an overwhelming Shivan menace Out There, the Terran economy foundering, and the fleet clearly not up to the task of 80 Sathani, you've got an obvious short-term problem to address. Investing in a long-term venture to go home to a system of uncertain resources and sophistication is something of a gamble.

Yeah, that's true.  The impression was that most Terrans wanted to return to Sol simply to reconnect with Earth, not for any economical reasons.  As far as the short-term problem, I think it could be argued that there was nothing they could do about a threat that size in the short term.  Even if they did everything they could to counter that threat, by the time BP takes place, I don't think the Terrans would have had a chance at stopping 80 Sathani.  The only way they would have a chance is if they invested in longer-term options (like reconnecting with Sol) and pray to God that Shivans don't come back anytime soon.  If you're screwed no matter what you do in the short-term, it's better to invest in options that put you in a better position in the long run.

Granted, I don't know if I'd be willing to do that myself.  It would take a lot of guts to do something that makes you more vulnerable in the short-term, even if you know that you would be doomed no matter what you did if the Shivans came back anytime soon.

[Ypoknons]

Granted the Vasudans are aliens but I can't actually say Petrarch was wrong per se or anything, if Vasudans feel jealousy as humans do. It was just very undiplomatic. Granted, the Vasudans do have a focal point in the Emperor, which the Terrans apparently don't (culturally at least, legally they do and they have very good defense reasons to bind together).

That said, you can't discount economics either. It's one of the key responsibilities of government and if the Terran Knossos was such a large budgetary drain, it used up money that could have used it to stimulate the economy after Capella (fiscal policy) and encourage growth (infrastructure, subsidizing colony reclamation and settlement). You could probably see the effects of that in less than 18 years and the risk involved in financial terms is much lower than going back to Earth, which have been anywhere at from extreme (decimated planets that suffered badly from the socio-economic changes from node collapse to the jewel it is now).

[-Norbert-]

The way I see it, the Vasudans don't begrudge that the Terrans want to reconnect with Sol, only what they see as an overhasted attempt to do so.
For them time has different meaning than to us.

Investing only a part of the materials and money into the portal project would have left more for the domestic problems to solve, but because that would have pushed the completion of the project beyond what the GTVA feared to be the point of collapse, they pushed it through as fast and hard as they could.... at the cost of the general public, but they were so focused - almost indoctrinated - onto the return to Earth that they accepted those cut-backs for the most part.
All in all it's an ugly situation. And the drawn out war couldn't have helped it to improve much.

[Buckshee Rounds]

According to BP fiction after Capella went boom there were all manner of borderwars and rebellions in the Terran elements of the GTVA. A lot of it being anti-Vasudan, not helped my Vasudan military intervention. I like the irony in that the Terrans ended up being what the Vasudans once were: philosophical and pessimistic while the Froggies are trying to sort **** out for the inevitable third Shivan incursion.

I think the only reason the Vasudans are helping the Tevs at all in the war is because they know those maniacs can't be dissuaded from trying to return to Sol and so the war has to be finished in order to bring the Tevs back into the fold. Cos there's no way the Vasudans will be able to fight Shivans by themselves.

[Scotty]

almost indoctrinated

That word, I don't think it means what you think it means.  Indoctrination implies instruction.

[-Norbert-]

I mean that the GTVA managed to fixate the general public so much onto the return to Sol, that it's effects are almost as if the population was indoctrinated.
At least that's the impression I got from the proses.

[Pred the Penguin]

I think the only reason the Vasudans are helping the Tevs at all in the war is because they know those maniacs can't be dissuaded from trying to return to Sol and so the war has to be finished in order to bring the Tevs back into the fold. Cos there's no way the Vasudans will be able to fight Shivans by themselves.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but BP canon(cannon?) also notes nothing along the lines of Tevs and Zods actively trying to work together, aside from the war in Sol. In fact, Tevs and Zods are drifting even farther apart.

That or I not only have bad memory but I'm also an idiot.

[-Sara-]

The whole point in my opinion is that the GTVA Terrans could have worked on investing their resources in their economy and showing some patience. There are plenty of Terran worlds which can make a good capitol-de-facto. If you recover your economy, piracy and rebellion would decline also, besides if Terrans had asked the Vasudans for some help the two'd have grown even closer. Time spent on getting home could have been spent on building an indestructable bond between two species and propaganda aimed at putting the UEF in a bad daylight could have been used to make a better picture of the Vasudans in the eyes of humankind. A gate could also have been built in 2390 or 2400. If Terrans and Vasudans had worked closely to share all their technological finds, they'd both have advanced another whole generation of technological development.

[Kolgena]

Pfft. What kind of **** story would that be? Happily ever after?

Jk. I'm willing to believe that GTVA would be that rash/stupid as long as it makes for an excellent narrative.

Actually, on second thought, I'd think that it'd be more human nature. It was only 30 years since Sol node's collapse that the GTVA found the gate technology. Since it would have been a relatively recent find in that respect, I'd imagine both scientists and the government to be abuzz with excitement, and funneling tons of resources to get the thing done ASAP. It's almost like the LHC. I mean, wtf did that thing do for us in a practical sense, aside from sucking billions of dollars worth of resources into something that has 0 or negative productivity. Yet, we still did it regardless of all the social problems going on elsewhere in the world.

[Ypoknons]

The LHC cost $9 billion. The US Department of Defense sent $315.5 billion in FY 2010, the US economy has a GDP of about $14 trillion, and the Agricultural Bank of China raised $19.2 billion on the Hong Kong and Shanghai stock exchanges to fund its business operations (and that's not even the whole value of the company, the PRC government hanging on to a large and you don't IPO all a company's worth up front). It would not be a large part of the government's budget for one year if built by the  government, and the expenses are possible for even private corporations. The Sol Gate is supposedly on an entire different scale, and that's one of the jobs of politicians - balancing expenditure between different purposes beneficial to society, or at least, eventually be beneficial to society.

[Jellyfish]

It's almost like the LHC. I mean, wtf did that thing do for us in a practical sense, aside from sucking billions of dollars worth of resources into something that has 0 or negative productivity. Yet, we still did it regardless of all the social problems going on elsewhere in the world.

Go back 50 years in time. You'll hear the same things about the space program. We now have calculators, microwaves, cell phones and other devices we take for granted thanks to it.

The LHC is the same thing. In the future, we'll get some devices we can't even dream of today thanks to that research.

[Niue]

Well, Petrarch had a suggestion and the Vasudans didn't take it very well. 

I'm sure a Vasudan would tell you that it was a question more of priorities than of absolute strategy. With an overwhelming Shivan menace Out There, the Terran economy foundering, and the fleet clearly not up to the task of 80 Sathani, you've got an obvious short-term problem to address. Investing in a long-term venture to go home to a system of uncertain resources and sophistication is something of a gamble.

Assuming the Terrans' Colossus was on par with a Sathanas, it might be possible for the Terrans/Vasudans to bring the Colossus towards a model of economy of scale.  Project costs go down when more units are ordered, so the cost and time that it takes to build a Colossus should go down from however much it cost (I don't know if there is any canon information about the cost of a Colossus) and should go down from 20 years to something more reasonable.  Sure, a fleet of Colossi would be expensive as heck (especially finding and training the crew required for each ship) but would perhaps serve as a deterrent to a future invasion of 80 Sathani.  Invest in infrastructure so that more ships can be built in parallel, then Ctrl-C! Ctrl-V! until your fleet is built.

[The E]

Please play Age Of Aquarius, mission "A time of Heroes". Two Destroyers and a few Corvettes take down a Sath in a matter of seconds.

Also, take a close look at WiH's Serkr Team, and think about what their primary role is.

The Colossus is, ultimately, too large and inefficient to ever be mass-produced. The GTVA instead opted to introduce new Destroyer and Corvette classes that could do the job just as well.

[Droid803]

The Colossus isn't an anti-juggernaut ship, its more of a destroyer-hunter.
Specifically, its designed to hunt SD Lucifer-class ships.

Its not very good at engaging Saths, but it'll wipe the floor with any FS2-era destroyer in seconds.

[Hades]

The Colossus isn't an anti-juggernaut ship, its more of a destroyer-hunter.

He was being hypothetical.

[Droid803]

I was saying that it wasn't likely for the GTVA to build another Colossus seeing as the new threat is Saths, not Lucifers, which haven't been seen at all during the SSI.

I'm agreeing.

[Buckshee Rounds]

Please play Age Of Aquarius, mission "A time of Heroes". Two Destroyers and a few Corvettes take down a Sath in a matter of seconds.

Also, take a close look at WiH's Serkr Team, and think about what their primary role is.

The Colossus is, ultimately, too large and inefficient to ever be mass-produced. The GTVA instead opted to introduce new Destroyer and Corvette classes that could do the job just as well.

They did take down the Sathanas mighty quick once it's beams were down but all the same the GTVA fleet is still smaller than 80 saths (a couple dozen destroyers in BP canon if I remember right), strikecraft taken into consideration as well. The GTVA fleet would be unable to debeam and probably get overwhelmed by Shivan bombers alone. Hypothetical Sathanas fleet engagement = 0 chance of survival.

[Qent]

Also, take a close look at WiH's Serkr Team, and think about what their primary role is.

Actually I had no idea until the dev commentary videos.

Spoiler:

They kill Sathanasen.