[killadonuts]

Originally posted by LtNarol
a few juggernauts supported with 12 or so Ravanas and 24ish Rakshasas, with fighter and bomber support could have easily wiped out the entire GTVA.  Just how long does a Hecate last against a Sathanas?

One minute at the most. Of course that's assuming the destroyer is right in front of the Sathanas.
Play the Bearbaiting mission in FS2 and see how long it takes for the Hecate to go down

[Anaz]

ok...you guys seem to be missing a rather important point here...

we fired first

the shivans actually never went out of their way in any [V] stuff to kill terrans, unless to keep them out of their way. Bottom line IMHO, if we had stayed out of their way and let them go to capella, we wouldn't have lost half the ships we did lose.

On why they didn't say 'yo dudes from earth?', well, mebby they were, and Bosch was the only one who heard...

[killadonuts]

I think Cappella somehow had something to do with Admiral Bosch.(Don't ask me how but its worth speculating)
If he really did indeed become friends with the Shivans like he was trying then he wouldn't let them crush the same race he was obsessed with saving.
Unless of course they killed him.

[LtNarol]

we didnt fire first, a Rakshasa warped in on top of an Aoelus and beamed it to hell, or were you not paying attention to the command briefings?

[killadonuts]

Originally posted by LtNarol
we didnt fire first, a Rakshasa warped in on top of an Aoelus and beamed it to hell, or were you not paying attention to the command briefings?

Admiral Bosch sent the NTC Trinity into the nebula to activate the portal and lure the Shivans into Terran Vasudan Space.
I don't think the Shivans would've entered Gamma Draconis at all if Bosch hadn't done this
...or were you not paying attention to the command briefings?

[Sesquipedalian]

The Shivans never went out of their way to harm Terrans?  That's not how I remember the end of FS1...

[LtNarol]

and Ses strikes again...OWNT

and where does it say that the Trinity was in the Nebula before that first Rakshasa appeared?

[CP5670]

The "we fired first" thing may have something to it. It is known that the GTI was probably aware of the existence of the Shivans long before even the Riviera attack and possibly had some encounters with them. If they had done something to anger the Shivans then, it would explain why the Lucifer fleet was bent on destroying both species. It is known that the Ancients did the same thing; attempting (and succeeding most of the time) to destroy any hostile species they encountered. Still, I think that this is a bit less likely than some other theories, due to the fact that the Shivans weren't exactly friendly when they boarded the Iceni in FS2, even though they had recieved a message of peace from Bosch.

[Anaz]

right, see I was going all the way back to FS1 history. The GTI probably proved to be a thorn in their side, so to pave the way for future traffic in this area (I.E. Sath fleet looking for possible star to form a gateway to), and found some pests. Before you build a house, you eliminate the termite nest. If we had gotten out of their way, and not been noticed, they would have just passed us by.

[killadonuts]

Originally posted by LtNarol
and where does it say that the Trinity was in the Nebula before that first Rakshasa appeared?

You have to pay attention to the command briefings.
I was mocking you before but now I'm serious.
Play the FS2 campaign and PAY ATTENTION TO THE COMMAND BRIEFINGS. Admiral Petrarch says it somewhere in the middle of the campaign in a (guess what?)COMMAND BRIEFING!!!!!!!!

[LtNarol]

the go figure out which one it is and tell us because i just flat out refuse to believe it

[Nico]

Originally posted by LtNarol
the go figure out which one it is and tell us because i just flat out refuse to believe it

yeah right, you're just too lazy to check

[Razor]

Originally posted by Stunaep


And to Shivans we are nothing more than ants.

If we were ants to the Shivans, we wouldn't be able to destroy their ultimate ship, SJ Sathanas.

But there is one more thing that puzzles me. How did :snipe:s know that those 9 SJs were heading towards Capella?

[karajorma]

Originally posted by LtNarol
the go figure out which one it is and tell us because i just flat out refuse to believe it

He's right. The time line goes something like this.

Trinity opens the knossos
Trinity gets sucked into nebula when the portal activates
Trinity encounters shivans and gets attacked
Trinity powers down and drifts away from the portal.
Shivans become aware that the knossos is active again
Shivans pass through the portal and attack GTVA ships

The Trinity opened the knossos. If the Trinity wasn`t in the nebula when the rakshasa came through, where the hell was it?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Razor


If we were ants to the Shivans, we wouldn't be able to destroy their ultimate ship, SJ Sathanas.

You're assuming the Sathanas is their best ship.....  with 80 of them, I'd expect the Saths to be a first wave assault fleet, rather than true kill-all-living-things heavy weaponry.

[Nico]

Originally posted by aldo_14


You're assuming the Sathanas is their best ship.....  with 80 of them, I'd expect the Saths to be a first wave assault fleet, rather than true kill-all-living-things heavy weaponry.

for my part, in all honesty, I don't even think the Sathanas is a warship. Sure, it has 4 damn powerful beams... but that said, it's still not fitted for real battles, you can flank it, it's dead. The shivans, I have no doubt, are not stupid enough to ignore this fact. So I think the sathanas is made just to blow up stars ( for any reason they have ). It's not made for waging wars against other species.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by venom2506


for my part, in all honesty, I don't even think the Sathanas is a warship. Sure, it has 4 damn powerful beams... but that said, it's still not fitted for real battles, you can flank it, it's dead. The shivans, I have no doubt, are not stupid enough to ignore this fact. So I think the sathanas is made just to blow up stars ( for any reason they have ). It's not made for waging wars against other species.

well,  your dealing with a different mindset for the Shivans... whilst GTVA ships tend to focus around covering flanks, the Shivans proably prefer to be able to deliver a devastating blow from their preferred angle.  It's unlikely a Sath would be half as dangerous to ships if its beams were spread out onto the sides.  It armour is good enough to buy it time to maneuver, anyway.

I'd say the Sathanas seems suited to a defensive position, though - have 10 or so guarding a ship / installation, with their beams pointing outwards - like buffalo guarding the weaker animals in the centre of the herd.

The other thing is that the Sath could well be the Shivan equivalent of a carrier....

[Reaper]

Oke, what if shivans attacked us, cos we are the ancients...
Maybe they blow up capella cos they were afraid of us... U know... thay may thought that we have 1000000 more collosuses... So they blow up capella to protect themself from invadin GTVA... Maybe bosch lied tho shivans that they would go away in fear and not harm terrans...
HURAY TO BOSCH!!!

Hmmm... i always write bull****s

[IceFire]

for my part, in all honesty, I don't even think the Sathanas is a warship. Sure, it has 4 damn powerful beams... but that said, it's still not fitted for real battles, you can flank it, it's dead. The shivans, I have no doubt, are not stupid enough to ignore this fact. So I think the sathanas is made just to blow up stars ( for any reason they have ). It's not made for waging wars against other species.

I still think its a warship, but your on the right track.  I don't think the Sathanas is JUST a warship.  I think it shows how advanced Shivans really are when we actually look at the largest ship we know them to have and realize that it may be a warship as an afterthought.

[LtNarol]

ok, i was wrong about the trinity, i'm sorry for what i said.

As for the Sathanas, if its supported by a few Ravanas and Demons, it can put up quite a fight as the destroyers can protect her flanks either by waiting at her back or by engaging whatever comes at the Sathanas from the sides before they reach strike range.

The best use i can see for the Sathanas however is the same role as modern day heavy artillery; it can hang back and provide heavy support for fighters/bombers, cruisers, corvettes and of course destroyers.  They may not be suited to the kind of close range fighting you see in the GTVA's prefered arena, but the shivans would likely -create- their own conditions for waging war dont you think?