Author Topic: Mass Effect 3  (Read 86352 times)

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Offline Dilmah G

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Interesting stuff, but it seems a bit 'hard-core' in contrast to the rest of the story. But TBH, I didn't even have such an issue with the ending anyway. :P

 

Offline General Battuta

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Interesting stuff, but it seems a bit 'hard-core' in contrast to the rest of the story. But TBH, I didn't even have such an issue with the ending anyway. :P

Hard decisions in a Mass Effect game? Horror regarding the Reapers? Noooooo!

Mass Effect 2's ending wasn't a botch. If they go with the correct interpretation (mine, of course) of what the Reapers were actually doing on that station, it's cool. If the 'liquid humans' thing turns out to be a way of brain uploading, cool. But if it's just about boiling species down to organic metal that turn into robo-monsters with forms the Reapers themselves do not design or control because something about the process is involuntary and it transfers the mystical spirit essence of what makes the most badass species a true race of badasses, bluuuuuuuuuurgh

I can't write the ME2 ending off as bad, but the fact that it left ambiguity which encompassed stories which were really bad is enough to draw my horror and alarm.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 10:14:20 am by General Battuta »

 

Offline Dilmah G

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That's not exactly what I was getting at. I did like having to 'make the right choice' team-wise, though, in ME2's finale - having the whole team work together doing different things at the same time to work towards the mission you've been fighting the whole game, and have your leadership decisions have an impact, and have those loyalty quests validated. As it stands now, your take doesn't really have a lot of that.

EDIT: Just read your edit. Hmm, I agree with that, but I've never been bothered majorly about this sort of stuff, and I'm not about to start. :P

 

Offline General Battuta

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That's not exactly what I was getting at. I did like having to 'make the right choice' team-wise, though, in ME2's finale - having the whole team work together doing different things at the same time to work towards the mission you've been fighting the whole game, and have your leadership decisions have an impact, and have those loyalty quests validated. As it stands now, your take doesn't really have a lot of that.

What? Yes it does. All the choices in the Suicide Mission happen before the scene I rewrote, which contains zero choices at all except the one about whether to destroy or save the Collector base.

  

Offline Dilmah G

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Oh, I get you. In response, I WANT MOAR TEAM DECISIONS, YO

 

Offline General Battuta

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Oh, I get you. In response, I WANT MOAR TEAM DECISIONS, YO

me2ilovethem

 

Offline Ransom

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battuta i have made a discovery! apparently you don't count as reading the thread when you are replying to it!

My favourite part is the choice. It's a hell of a lot more interesting than deciding what to do with some random data thing.

Really my only remaining concern would be the climactic battle. ME1's had weight because you were facing off against a character that had affected you personally - a Praetorian still doesn't fill that gap, but I guess that's a problem with ME2's plot as a whole. At least it'd be a more dynamic fight than the giant Terminator.

I really like the idea of clambering over a half-formed Reaper for the finale. And the new explanation for the abducted colonists is creepy. Doesn't it still make the Reapers dependent on organic life, though? I assume they're not just storing minds because they like the taste. I don't know anything about the original draft, mind you.

Either way, the suggestion that each Reaper contains the repurposed minds of dead civilisations - oh man. You're telling me they ditched that explanation for what we got?

:(

edit: oh also I never really liked the way EDI turned out to be a total skeleton key. It's too easy.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 10:42:37 am by Ransom »

 

Offline Fury

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Let me just quote a certain character that some of us hate to love and love to hate.
Quote
I can see the ending.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Really my only remaining concern would be the climactic battle. ME1's had weight because you were facing off against a character that had affected you personally - a Praetorian still doesn't fill that gap, but I guess that's a problem with ME2's plot as a whole. At least it'd be a more dynamic fight than the giant Terminator.

Yeah, and I miss the ability to persuade the boss to death.

Quote
I really like the idea of clambering over a half-formed Reaper for the finale. And the new explanation for the abducted colonists is creepy. Doesn't it still make the Reapers dependent on organic life, though? I assume they're not just storing minds because they like the taste. I don't know anything about the original draft, mind you.

Dependent on organic life in the way an All-Star team is dependent on regular teams: they nom up the best to make new kickass Reapers for their squad of civilization-embodying space squidbots. I'm cool with that kind of dependency. They're just winnowing out the talent.

Quote
Either way, the suggestion that each Reaper contains the repurposed minds of dead civilisations - oh man. You're telling me they ditched that explanation for what we got?

:(

I'm hoping they still reveal that as the truth in ME3, and just for some reason felt it couldn't be delivered in ME2. Because yeah, it's that good. It's like each Reaper is a singularity, the end state of a civilization's development. (Though I assume each species becomes multiple Reapers.)

Also I'm wondering if they're gonna reveal that the Reapers are omg just symptoms of a bigger problem, like whatever's eating Haestrom's star. ****ing photino birds.

Quote
edit: oh also I never really liked the way EDI turned out to be a total skeleton key. It's too easy.

Yeah. Unfortunately her magic AI skills feel narratively necessary for stuff like moving those silly hex platforms about.

 

Offline Polpolion

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I just hope they have better excuses for combat than "oh by the way this guy hired a battalion of mercenaries to do stuff for him."

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Also I'm wondering if they're gonna reveal that the Reapers are omg just symptoms of a bigger problem, like whatever's eating Haestrom's star. ****ing photino birds.

Due to unforeseen financial problems, they end up never releasing Mass Effect 3. Instead, we just get vague statements like "Shivans Reapers are just a symptom of a bigger problem"

wheeee
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline Kolgena

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I never knew that was the original ending to ME2. The released one feels CAPCOMy. Big stage boss/robot, shoot the glowing orbs, dodge predictable boss patterns. And that's just from a gameplay perspective. The draft felt darker and aimed towards a more mature audience.

 

Offline General Battuta

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I never knew that was the original ending to ME2. The released one feels CAPCOMy. Big stage boss/robot, shoot the glowing orbs, dodge predictable boss patterns. And that's just from a gameplay perspective. The draft felt darker and aimed towards a more mature audience.

It's not the draft, per se, it's the draft fleshed out a bit with my loving caress. But the core concept is what was in the original draft, yeah.

 

Offline Ravenholme

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In spite of its faults, Mass Effect 2 was one of my favorite games of ever.

I'm not totally sold on this new one yet. It's pretty clear what the metaplot will be. Need to wait to see more.

Christina Norman has stated she wants to move the gameplay back towards a little more RPG-rich style.

Bring back aaaaaall ME2 squadmates.  :mad:

I have thoughts, based purely on the trailer and some things that were based on forum posts from some Devs a while back. But, mostly, this is an analysis of the trailer and the depressing things I think it represents in terms of quality of writing. I apologise for what you have to wade through to get the salient points, but I don't have time to reduce it at the moment, and the discussion is currently ongoing, too.

Code: [Select]
Devidose: OH****REAPERS
Ravenholme: RUN AWAY!
Devidose: but they have the planet!
Ravenholme: Ummm... fly away? There was a remarkable lack of Reapers holding the orbital highground
Ravenholme: WHICH MAKES NO SENSE
Devidose: If the viewport is anything to go by at least
Ravenholme: And it had a good orbital view of one hemisphere
Devidose: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWHXxmUgMGw&feature=fvw
Devidose: I got a possibly ME1 vibe from it
Ravenholme: What we have here is sacrificing the logical for the dramatic
Devidose: HELP US! FEROS UNDER ATTACK! *turns away for greater good*
Ravenholme: Despite the fact it would have been more dramatic to have the Normandy II bailing out of orbit with a reaper on it's ass
Devidose: That would be epicbeyond beloief
Ravenholme: And would've made more sense
Ravenholme: Also, I dislike how they've reduced the Reapers from coldly-logical genocidal crusading machines into moostachio-twirling 2nd rate robot villains driven by a revenge which will be there ultimate downfall
Ravenholme: "Let's not move through the galaxy in an orderly fashion, taking the citadel and shutting down the mass relay system as we did last time, no, let us go after the homeworld of the man who's thwarted our plans twice before, instead of doing the logical and most destructive thing against which he would be no defence! Yay, verily, for attacking Earth first for revenge makes the most sense this side of the universe."
Ravenholme: And before you say I don't know they haven't, I know they haven't, because Shepard is actually capable of rallying allies to take the fight to the Reapers who have clearly made the little sol system one of their first stops
Ravenholme: If the Mass Relays had been iced, he couldn't
Ravenholme: (UNLESS they use the Reaper IFF to circumvent the Reaper-Relay Lock, which would be an awesome chekovs gun)
Devidose: Wasnt going to ssay anything :P was busy nomming a bacon toast sammich
Devidose: mmm
Ravenholme: (But doesn't help his allies_
Ravenholme: And :P
Ravenholme: And, the death toll mentioned in the trailer is utterly pitiful
Ravenholme: Why are we scared of the Reapers if in a week they do less damage than a nuclear missile equipped trident submarine could do in 30 minutes
Devidose: Tbh, given Shep has shown he can interface with Prothean tech, the Reapers know the humans are advanced by a bit
Devidose: woo, 9 mil
Devidose: so... london?
Ravenholme: Mass Relays =/= Prothean
Devidose: beacon
Devidose: he's used 2 of them
Ravenholme: If they just laid the smack down on the MR system, they wouldn't need to worry
Ravenholme: And hell, they beat the Protheans
Ravenholme: They don't need to worry
Ravenholme: Yeah, but if they locked down the MRs and did what they did last time, humanity couldn't fight back because every system would be isolated and could be used at their discretion
Ravenholme: For reproduction and resourcing
Ravenholme: And the rest could be left to die on the vine
Ravenholme: Or smashed to dust with relativistic kill vehicles
Ravenholme: Preferably accelerated meteors
Ravenholme: But yeah, unless bioware pull some amazing **** out of their hats, this is gonna be a cringeworthy plot
Ravenholme: Unless, basically, they address my points in a logical way and revise some stuff, or come out and say that trailer was purely for dramatic effect and does not reflect the actual plot in it's totality, and in fact, just encompasses Reapers on Earth
Ravenholme: Essentially, I want the guy who wrote ME1 back
Ravenholme: The dude who wrote ME2 is a comic book writer and it shows
Ravenholme: And I believe he's the ME3 writer
Ravenholme: Mind if I bring Useful Dave into this convo? Me and him were picking the trailer apart earlier :p
Devidose: Sure sorry, Claire called
Your chat with Devidose is now a multi-user chat.
Devidose has been invited to chat.
[EPS]Useful Dave has been invited to chat.
[EPS]Useful Dave entered chat.
Devidose: ME2 trailer, the one with Grunt and Thane, would you consider that to reflect the gameplay?
Ravenholme: It reflected the plot, though
Ravenholme: I wasn't referring to gameplay, merely the plot
Devidose: Likewise with the ME1? As Feros wasnt really attacked and we didnt say no in that way
Devidose: Well yeah, but the plot could be Reapers wasting planets
Ravenholme: The ME2 trailer was actually fairly consistent
Devidose: It's not as if they have much to worry about
Ravenholme: And, nah, the main plot seems to be the attack on Earth
[EPS]Useful Dave: Game changes tend tohappen in production, as for the ME1 trailer
Devidose: Even if you bring Rachni, Geth, Alliance, Council, Krogan, sure you have a giant army... to fight space C'thulu
Devidose: in space
Devidose: with spaceship
Ravenholme: Basically, I think the inclusion of MP is resulting in a Halo 2/3 dip in storyline quality
Devidose: So focusing more on mp than sp?
Ravenholme: Or detracting from the time devoted to SP
Ravenholme: Especially since the time to this sequel is only what... 2 years-ish?
Ravenholme: I'm tempted to script up, roughly, how I would've done that announcement trailer
[EPS]Useful Dave: Unless they were pulling a Lotor
[EPS]Useful Dave: Doing it in time with ME2
Ravenholme: Like Valve was with the Episodes, yet we still haven't seen Ep3? :P
[EPS]Useful Dave: Bioware might be more effective? :P
Ravenholme: Bound to be, they've got studios
Ravenholme: all over
Devidose: it fell down the back of the sofa
Ravenholme: Since EA bought them out
Ravenholme: Gabe ate it, he thought it was a pizza
[EPS]Useful Dave: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTnrD3Oeb5U&feature=related
[EPS]Useful Dave: But, E3 was supposed to haz snow?
Ravenholme: Dave objected to the idea that the attack was an instant surprise with clearly no time for the UNC to warn the forces of Earth/Sol what they were facing, and I responded with this
Ravenholme: Ravenholme: Well, the insta-attack on Earth kinda makes sense if they locked down the Mass Relays a la previous attacks, and finally buggered in to kick the **** out of Earth
Ravenholme: If it was isolated, and the home fleet was isolated elsewhere trying to defend another system when the lockdown went out, the Reapers could blitz in on overwhelming force
Devidose: I doubt the 5th Fleet could do much to several reapers anyway
Ravenholme: Yeah
Ravenholme: Slow 'em down is about all
Devidose: Took the entire lot to just take out Sovereign, and that was because his avatar died when he was still connected
Devidose: Harbinger at least DC'd before the base gets nuked
[EPS]Useful Dave: That might depend if they have Turian WTFBEWM guns
[EPS]Useful Dave: Which should damage the Reaper abit more at least
Ravenholme: Man has a point
Devidose: Maybe, depends
Ravenholme: But I somehow doubt they will, it's one thing for a shadowy mutli-billionaire to finance the addition to one ship, and another for a government to justify it to a taxpaying public that doesn't really believe in the Reaper attacks/doesn't know about them
Ravenholme: Remember the official line on Sovereign is that he was an ancient flagship vessel found by the Geth under Saren
Devidose: Yeah, I'm looking forward to that moment with the Council
Ravenholme: Well, the way I'd do it, there would be no Council
Devidose: Hoping there is a Thanix Cannon option for the reply
Ravenholme: Actually, I'm going to write up my dream script for the announcement trailer
[EPS]Useful Dave: Only 11 months after the battle, the turians produced the Thanix, their own miniaturized version of Sovereign's gun. The Thanix can fire reliably every five seconds, rivaling a cruiser's firepower but mountable on a fighter or frigate.
[EPS]Useful Dave: So it's not really some super secret thing at least by ME2
Devidose: Depends how much the Turians have put it into production
Devidose: While the ME2 cost was relatively low, I'm wondering if all the prices there for things were not just partia payments, with Cerby helping fund the rest, as pretty much everything you research still helps out Cerby in the end, so it's worth the additional cash, given Shep cost, what, 2 billion?
Ravenholme: *The Citadel drifts before the camera, angled slightly so that the sun is in the centre background, illuminating the (widow?) nebula. The city arms are charred and glowing wrecks, torn off near the base of the 'petals', the drifting segments torn into thousands of fractions which light up with the occasional secondary explosion. In the foreground, the wreckage of the citadel fleet and an unidentified human fleet are visible, and as the camera pans, the destiny ascension/CF flagship flashes by, torn in two and ravaged with rents and explosion damage, leaking atmosphere and bodies as secondaries ravage it's torn corpse*

Narrator: They came out of nowhere.....

*A cloud of nebula fog pans by, allowing us a view of Harbinger crouched on the Citadel Presidium tower, clearly interfacing with the Mass Relay control, and the ranks of waiting Reapers, by no means the totality of their fleet, dispatching the last few defenders, soundless explosions the last testament of their useless defiance*
Devidose: The Citadel has a sun?
Devidose: Yes, Widow
[EPS]Useful Dave: It's in a system
Ravenholme: There was always a sun in the cutscenes involving it in ME1
Ravenholme: Distant
Ravenholme: But there
Ravenholme: Hence why the nebula looked so light
Devidose: Fair enough
Ravenholme: That's all I have so far
Ravenholme: Narrator: Within days they arrived at the Citadel, and hours later they had taken it, and...

*Harbinger suddenly launches himself away from the Presidium tower, moving to join up with the Reaper fleet which begins to advance on the Mass Relay, leaving behind a small rearguard force*

Narrator: They trapped us, we had no where to run, the Relay system denied to us, and they came..

*Cut to the Relay in the Sol system, the 5th fleet taking defensive positions around it, and suddenly, mass simultaneous transit of Reapers, with Harbinger in the second wave, the vanguard already beginning to obliterate the frail human fleet through sheer numbers and overwhelming force*
Ravenholme: And you get the idea, the Reapers moving into Earth orbit, then the sorta events of the actual debut trailer, and then, the Normandy II fleeing a pursuing duo of Reapers and exiting through the Pluto Mass Relay due to it's Reaper IFF (Chekov's gun, anyone?)
[EPS]Useful Dave: And likely with the event of Reapers hunting' em down coming in at one point
Ravenholme: Da
[EPS]Useful Dave: They should be able to track the IFF at least

Oh, and Batts, regarding your interpretation of the Reaper genesis events, I think it's six of your theory, and half a dozen of the purely genes + rendered organic material + metal and stuff = reproducto-paste. (As in, what it actually is officially. Like, the Human reaper would have had some of the characteristics that made the humans badass, but the rest was all down to it being based on the genes. Maybe all of it was, the official post/discussion I remember reading wasn't exactly clear)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 04:59:19 pm by Ravenholme »
Full Auto - I've got a bullet here with your name on it, and I'm going to keep firing until I find out which one it is.

<The_E>   Several sex-based solutions come to mind
<The_E>   Errr
<The_E>   *sexp

 

Offline Scotty

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Regarding the death toll in the trailer, are we assuming that's the whole planet's death toll?  Couldn't it just be London's?

 

Offline Ravenholme

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Regarding the death toll in the trailer, are we assuming that's the whole planet's death toll?  Couldn't it just be London's?

Again, that is still pitiful for Reapers, since the Greater London area population should be somewhat larger than that in the future, and given the amount of Reapers in the area. (Also, the city looked depressingly contemporary as well, compared to the gleaming spires in the planetary descriptions in ME1/2)
Full Auto - I've got a bullet here with your name on it, and I'm going to keep firing until I find out which one it is.

<The_E>   Several sex-based solutions come to mind
<The_E>   Errr
<The_E>   *sexp

 

Offline General Battuta

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Yeah, I'm worried.  :(

ohwell. Hope endures. Maybe the Reapers are still abductinating people.

 

Offline T-LoW

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Yeah, I'm worried.  :(

ohwell. Hope endures. Maybe the Reapers are still abductinating people.

So the giant Terminator can walk on earth and sheperd has to climb it like in Shadow of the Colossus - yeah :nervous:
The german Freespace-Galaxy

"There was a time before we were born. If someone asks this is where I'll be."

 

Offline Ravenholme

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Yeah, I'm worried.  :(

ohwell. Hope endures. Maybe the Reapers are still abductinating people.

Yeah, I'm hoping because the writing for the previous two was good (One was better in terms of overall plot and event pacing, two managed to make it's plot seem a lot more epic [despite the somewhat grander scale of ME1's plot] and have better [in some regards, and worse in other] character interactions etc) that this trailer will be purely for dramatic effect and not actually reflect too much on the plot beyond Reapers being on Earth.

It's still a CE pre-order, if only for the completion of a saga I've followed anxiously since Day One.
Full Auto - I've got a bullet here with your name on it, and I'm going to keep firing until I find out which one it is.

<The_E>   Several sex-based solutions come to mind
<The_E>   Errr
<The_E>   *sexp

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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So the giant Terminator can walk on earth and sheperd has to climb it like in Shadow of the Colossus - yeah :nervous:


Humanoid Reaper,
will become Shepard's mecha.
Better than Mako.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.