Author Topic: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]  (Read 20617 times)

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Offline Hades

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
I bet one of those intakes has more polies than the entire retail model.
Yep. 1.5k triangles for each one. I can probably shave off a few, though I was hoping the intakes could be done with some form of detail boxing.

It looks overly smooth for the Apollo. I would resort to looking to the cutscene model in the intro for panel details and structure shapes.
The cutscene model, aside from the cockpit and the lines in the intake, is vastly unchanged from the model we see in-game. Not to mention on the texture, there's implied curvature like I've done it.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
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Offline Snail

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
Any chance of creating a cutscene model as a sort of heavy Apollo or bomber Apollo? That'd be really useful for pre-FS1 campaigns.

 

Offline Kolgena

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
Detail boxing on a fighter? Has that ever been done before?

Also, looks snazzin.

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
Sweeeet, looking awesome.

 

Offline -Sara-

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
It looks overly smooth for the Apollo. I would resort to looking to the cutscene model in the intro for panel details and structure shapes.

While one reason for drawing Hades into this is that I really lack the time to fix my mesh (and mess :P after not modelling proper for years), the other part of how and why I chose to turn the Apollo into a collab with Hades is to try out some of the idea he had to make the fighter a bit more in line with the other ships in Freespace. In my opinion the lack of curves and roundness in many of the FS models are a direct result of having to keep the details limited. Besides slightly revamping a model to look more snazzy is always a good reason, as long as it doesn't derivate too far away from the original model.

Any chance of creating a cutscene model as a sort of heavy Apollo or bomber Apollo? That'd be really useful for pre-FS1 campaigns.

This Apollo will get two pilots. :) I guess a texture job can easily make it act as either.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 08:03:36 am by -Sara- »
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Offline Tomo

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
Detail boxing on a fighter? Has that ever been done before?
There really is no point in detail boxing on any physically small model.
Capital ships need detail boxes because one part of the ship could be within 'high-detail-draw-distance' while other parts are not.

You only need LODs for small things like fighters because the whole fighter will be within 'high-detail-draw-distance' (or not) at the same time.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
This Apollo will get two pilots. :) I guess a texture job can easily make it act as either.

Um wut? This Apollo should only get 1 pilot, IMO. The Apollo in the FS1 Intro has many, MANY more things changed that just the number of pilots. In fact, it is more like a bomber variant of the Apollo design and really, it would require a totally different model.
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Offline peterv

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
Um wut? This Apollo should only get 1 pilot, IMO. The Apollo in the FS1 Intro has many, MANY more things changed that just the number of pilots. In fact, it is more like a bomber variant of the Apollo design and really, it would require a totally different model.

I agree!

 

Offline Hades

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
Um wut? This Apollo should only get 1 pilot, IMO. The Apollo in the FS1 Intro has many, MANY more things changed that just the number of pilots. In fact, it is more like a bomber variant of the Apollo design and really, it would require a totally different model.
Negative. There's no way that they'd have a completely different chassis which requires different pilots, real life fighters have a pilot and a co-pilot, and putting one pilot in would be massively overscaled, as well.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 12:57:16 pm by Hades »
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
Unless you haven't noticed, most FS ships were not ever designed with real consideration to the scale of the cockpit with respect to the pilot. It seems that Wing Commander is guilty of similar lax considerations in their ship designs as well.

Furthermore, there are plenty of real-world aircraft that can field one or two crew members with minimal changes to the fuselage. I'd compare the Apollo to something like the Mitsubishi F-1/T-2, where the aft crew station could be omitted in favor of additional avionics and systems. In the case of the cutscene Apollo, I'd argue that the displaced systems would have been mounted aft of the gunpod under the nose of the craft.
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Offline Dragon

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
Another example would be F-16F and E, you most likely couldn't tell the diference without looking at the cockpit (nose also has a slightly different shape in E, but only slightly).

 
Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
The F-15 would be a good analogy here, I guess. The dogfight versions (e.g. F-15 C) are single-seater (with two-seater training versions), the strike versions (e.g. F-15 E) are all two-seater. The overall airframe was changed quite a bit for the strike version (mostly on the inside), but it's still clearly an F-15.
IMHO, the Apollo could go the same way, with a single-seater dogfighter (for everyday use) and a modified two-seater strike version, as seen in the intro. A two-seater dogfighter could be used for trainings.

Will there be some more detail on the body of those intakes? They look a little dull right now.

 

Offline -Sara-

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
We can always see if both look good.
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
This Apollo will get two pilots. :) I guess a texture job can easily make it act as either.

Um wut? This Apollo should only get 1 pilot, IMO. The Apollo in the FS1 Intro has many, MANY more things changed that just the number of pilots. In fact, it is more like a bomber variant of the Apollo design and really, it would require a totally different model.

To be honest what evidence is there that the Apollo ever came in a single seat variety?  The FS1 (and FS2 for that matter) game models for fighters and bombers never actually display the cockpits, they just have solid color canopies.  I just checked the wiki and I don't see that it specifies what the crew number is either.  Given the rather obnoxious scaling of canopies that occurs in Freespace multi crew strikecraft actually allievates some of that ridiculousness. 
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Offline -Sara-

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
This Apollo will get two pilots. :) I guess a texture job can easily make it act as either.

Um wut? This Apollo should only get 1 pilot, IMO. The Apollo in the FS1 Intro has many, MANY more things changed that just the number of pilots. In fact, it is more like a bomber variant of the Apollo design and really, it would require a totally different model.

To be honest what evidence is there that the Apollo ever came in a single seat variety?  The FS1 (and FS2 for that matter) game models for fighters and bombers never actually display the cockpits, they just have solid color canopies.  I just checked the wiki and I don't see that it specifies what the crew number is either.  Given the rather obnoxious scaling of canopies that occurs in Freespace multi crew strikecraft actually allievates some of that ridiculousness.

AFAIK none, the original cockpit was black. Whoever made the transparant cockpit chose for 1 pilot to show.
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Offline Hades

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
To be honest what evidence is there that the Apollo ever came in a single seat variety?  The FS1 (and FS2 for that matter) game models for fighters and bombers never actually display the cockpits, they just have solid color canopies.  I just checked the wiki and I don't see that it specifies what the crew number is either.  Given the rather obnoxious scaling of canopies that occurs in Freespace multi crew strikecraft actually allievates some of that ridiculousness.
Exactly why I did it. One pilot would look silly, as if he's drowning in a sea of cockpit.

Will there be some more detail on the body of those intakes? They look a little dull right now.
Absolutely. My new Medusa ain't 17k triangles for nothing. :P
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
Here's the deal. Whether canon or not, we as a community have set a precedent where fighters/interceptors have one pilot and bombers have two. I think that makes a lot of sense. Why throw that away now?

In IRC, we suggested that Hades make this a single pilot Apollo and that he alter the design for a second model (a D.H. version that could be more akin to Ash's two pilot variant). Hades refused to take the suggestions for whatever reason.  :doubt:

My projects will use a single pilot variant, even if I have to make it myself. (Except the FS1 Intro).
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
Here's the deal. Whether canon or not, we as a community have set a precedent where fighters/interceptors have one pilot and bombers have two. I think that makes a lot of sense. Why throw that away now?

In IRC, we suggested that Hades make this a single pilot Apollo and that he alter the design for a second model (a D.H. version that could be more akin to Ash's two pilot variant). Hades refused to take the suggestions for whatever reason.  :doubt:

My projects will use a single pilot variant, even if I have to make it myself. (Except the FS1 Intro).

I'm just pointing out there is no canon evidence for a single seat Apollo, in fact the only evidence from :v: indicates a two seater.  Considering the variety of seating arrangements used by real world fighters, I don't think making everything homogeneous for the sake of precedence is a particularly compelling argument.  Especially considering that there are still plenty of craft that have not been remade by FSU, who's to say later down the line you don't have two seat Erins or Ares?  Or a four seater Ursa for that matter?  The UEF is already rocking multi crew strikecraft, which generally looks quite nice and more believable then a single pilot in a bus sized cockpit.
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Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
Then we have a disagreement. Good thing I have enough modelling prowess to modify my own install.
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: A new GTF Apollo [WIP]
Agreeing do disagree does not a long winded drawn out debate about the creative process make.
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