[Mika]

I didn't say anything about the data transfer standard itself, they are the same.

It is how the input is handled by the monitor. DVI is interpreted in a different manner than HDMI, and I find that it is easier to get a good image with DVI. I guess the reason for the differing behaviors is that the HDMI standard is used by high definition televisions, which might or might not, have native 1080 pixel resolutions. For this reason, they usually add some extra (~15 %) around the edges of the image (=over scan) so that the screen estate is surely filled. DVI circuitry does not do this as it knows exactly the pixel resolution. So the point was that it is easier to get the plug & play functionality out of DVI instead of HDMI.

The other thing I would like to mention here is the trend of using clear plastic (black but not matte) around the display. While this might make the monitor look good, it actually adds a lot to the reflections from the edges of the screen, that you might find irritating if you have a lamp behind you.

[Starman01]

While this might make the monitor look good, it actually adds a lot to the reflections from the edges of the screen, that you might find irritating if you have a lamp behind you.

Now, THAT's a good argument, I haven't even thought about that !!! That's is certainly one point that I also need to take into account, because I have light in my back (though not a too strong one)

[Mika]

I know

I'm thinking of buying black matte tape just to block off the worst reflections. Form over functionality design principle causes good looking displays but apparently not a lot of thought has been given for the environment it might be placed in. If matte display edges are available, I would recommend going with them. Otherwise you need to go for a little bit of DIY...

The issue depends on person though. I find it really irritating, my guess is a lot of people wouldn't even notice. Try it in the shop!

[Starman01]

Well, the problem is, there aren't many shops around in my area. There is certainly a big hardware store (one of the biggest in Germany, Media Markt), but I'm not sure they have something I try. The reason why I'm asking here, is that I'm very unsure and usually have the darn luck in spending money on wrong stuff.

That viewsonic monitor looks really nice, but I doubt I will be find exactly that one in the story so i will have to buy it online. Unlike what I said in the first post, money is not the real big concern, If I would be sure that I buy something very good, I would certainly spent more on it, I just set the 250,- € because I always buy wrong stuff

[Mika]

You can try the effect with any display, televisions seem to have clear black edges too. Or better, try that at your friend's house. The whole thing gets even worse if there is a window behind you.

There's another sort of effect to which my eyes seem to be very sensitive, more on that in a a couple of minutes.

[Mika]

The other effect I see on current displays but didn't see on the older displays is slightly harder to explain.

It is visible during gaming when there isn't a lot action going on. When there is a big contrast, i.e. illuminated face of a person against a dark background, or fingers against dark background, I start to pick up the edge between that brightly colored object and the dark background. Because the characters are animated, there is always slight movement during those scenes, that edge starts to move slightly. It is rather pronounced effect and for some reason at least my eyes tend to pick that up instead of the rest of the cut scene. The same with textures that have a large amount of almost black and white noise (causes local star like flickering). My gut feeling is that the Moire effects are also more common in current displays.

The weird thing is that none of this was visible on the old display (1280x1024, 19"?). On the new display (1900x1080, 24") it is. Luckily, anti-aliasing takes most of that away (when games support it), but I need to turn it quite high (16x). The same thing with HDTVs, even when viewed from further away and the worst thing is that they don't have anti-aliasing.

Even though a couple of gentlemen here convinced me that the new stuff is better than the old stuff, I'll mention this because it might be something you might want to check too.

[Mikes]

It is visible during gaming when there isn't a lot action going on. When there is a big contrast, i.e. illuminated face of a person against a dark background, or fingers against dark background, I start to pick up the edge between that brightly colored object and the dark background. Because the characters are animated, there is always slight movement during those scenes, that edge starts to move slightly. It is rather pronounced effect and for some reason at least my eyes tend to pick that up instead of the rest of the cut scene.

Could be an overdrive artifact.... which wouldn t be surprising because every idiot manufacturer wants to make a "2ms omgz!" panel... lol.

(Bright objects moving on a black surface leaving a kind of brightness trail/shadow would be very typical for that)

You can check if you find an "overdrive on/off" option somewhere in the monitor options and see if it makes a difference.... sadly, nowadays "overdrive off" often means its still on and still causes artifacts.... just that the setting is a bit less agressive than "on".

All the cheap 23-26 panels that are flooding the market nowadays haven t suddenly gotten so cheap because the technology got so much better/easier to produce... most of them are simply utter garbage.

A 23-24"gaming TFT" with image quality similar or better than a CRT... fast response time, insignificant input lag AND no ghosting/artifact issues.... still starts at a 1000-1500 bucks upwards.
The 200-300 buck range is outright embarassing and the 400-900 range usually has at least one severe flaw in one of the above criteria.

[Mika]

I think we are not talking about the same artifact. Those that you mentioned I usually see in HDTVs. There is no overdrive option in my display.

The artifact I mentioned causes that the edge lines start to jump up to your eyes. When there is slow movement, you can see the line jumping between two rows of pixels. Or if there is some bright pixels in the textures, you will see that pixel moving constantly back and forth two positions. It is really irritating, and the only medicine I have found is anti-aliasing (so much for high definition). I know that not all people notice this, it doesn't bother my little brother as it does me. I don't see this effect on older LCD displays or CRTs. I might go and check if I see it on a plasma TV, it could have something to do with how regular is the pixel pattern itself.

Yeah, paying as much money for the display as I paid for the computer doesn't sound too good. So I'll try to manage with the 24".

[Mika]

Actually, now that you mentioned it, there seems to be some of that overdrive when scrolling down the forum text, I see that the letters do have fading tails. This hasn't bothered me during gaming, though. I might take a look at the display drivers options, for some reason NVIDIA has not allowed anisotropic filtering and triple buffering by default.

There is also a red tint on the left side of each letter. Again, this is only visible on black and white, but doesn't bother me during gaming. Something to do with RBG balance, or then again my eyes are just too sharp.

[QuantumDelta]

Re current discussion AND topic;

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-051-IY

Been using it for a year.
Trust me when I say I am the very first person who would notice ghosting, the VERY first.
There is none in games, there is a little bit on forums if you have the brightness/contrast down majorly, if you use 'gaming' mode, it disappears completely.
No red-lines by text etc.

Then again, Iiyama are legends.

[Mikes]

Re current discussion AND topic;

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-051-IY

Been using it for a year.
Trust me when I say I am the very first person who would notice ghosting, the VERY first.
There is none in games, there is a little bit on forums if you have the brightness/contrast down majorly, if you use 'gaming' mode, it disappears completely.
No red-lines by text etc.

Then again, Iiyama are legends.

Just can say... don't look at an IPS panel monitor (Iiyama or otherwise) ... you might end up instantly not liking your old monitor anymore ... and then it gets expensive lol

[pecenipicek]

Ah, yeah, a crutial detail by the way. No matter what people might say, even the most basic IPS panel has better viewing angles than the best TN panels. This is also one of the very important factors. Screw color reproduction and ghosting if i cant even see the colors right on the whole screen when i bob my head a bit out of the sweetspot

[QuantumDelta]

Hmm, probably helps how close I sit to my monitor, well, most of the time, but to be fair even when I'm led in bed watching a movie from across the room it's not really noticeable, you gotta go quite a ways to the sides to see the difference.

If it does bother you it is something to consider though.

[pecenipicek]

the vertical viewing area is much more critical than horisontal to be honest.

[QuantumDelta]

the vertical viewing area is much more critical than horisontal to be honest.

If you hadn't guessed my bed is much lower than my monitor.
horizontally, you really have to work hard to get that off colour.

[pecenipicek]

mm.


but still


*loves his S-IPS panel*

[IceFire]

I'm shopping around a bit for a new LCD as well. I'm finding it difficult to go by manufacturers or even reviewers to find out if something is a TN or a S-IPS panel. Nobody seems to talk about that now. It's all about LED backlights and refresh rates.

[Starman01]

OK, I need to out me now Pls explain me wtf is an S-IPS panel, I still don't get it

[pecenipicek]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-IPS#In-plane_switching_.28IPS.29

[Fury]

There are several types of panels: TN, IPS, AFFS, MVA, PVA and ASV. The most common of these is the TN which can be found in almost all consumer grade TFT displays.

Color, contrast, viewing angle and response times set there panel types apart from each other. TN is the cheapest of them all, hence it's consumer grade. But it also happens to have the fastest response time of the bunch. MVA and PVA usually have better color, contrast and viewing angles than TN, but fall far behind in response time. IPS beats all of those in all categories, except in response time to TN panels. AFFS is like better IPS, but I haven't seen a single AFFS display within consumer budget, it's probably more expensive than IPS which is already more expensive than TN, MVA and PVA.

Still, there are a few high-end consumer grade TFT displays that use IPS panels. You just need to look for them. For example, following displays are IPS:
- HP ZR22w, HP ZR24w
- LG W2220P

And with LED backlight
- LG IPS231P

No matter what, always read a bunch of reviews before deciding on any display. Still, I'm sure good quality TN display will work out just fine too, particularly for your wallet. You get what you pay for.