[Dark Hunter]

I'm not so sure that is the case.

If we accept that the spritual plane exists, and that the soul exists as well, then is it not possible that, as the body fails, the soul begins to experience things on the spiritual plane? Senses it always had, but didn't use before because it was still contained by the body. Then the body revives, and the soul is fully re-integrated, but retains some slight memories of the spritual plane?

I don't think, you see, that the spiritual and physical planes are separate. They overlap and intersect. The human soul is one example. It is a spiritual thing housed in a physical body, using that body as a medium to interact on this level of reality. Therefore, you do not "go to" the spiritual plane when you die; you're already there, so to speak. But while still housed in your body, you are blocked from experiencing the spiritual plane, except in rare cases, and can only perceive the physical.

And I realize that the scientific types here will cry a load of BS on everything I just wrote, but I'm in a philosophizing mood.

[MP-Ryan]

A combination of pre-existing expectations, self-interested parents feeding him information directly and indirectly, bad reporting, and retroactive fabrication on everybody's part, all spiced with a heaping helping of confirmation bias.

I don't think money's the entire point, they probably genuinely believe, but people also genuinely believe Mother Mary was in that toast.

Sorry I'm late, but I'm quoting this because I love it!

[Flipside]

There's actually some interesting experiments going on with regards to Out Of Body experiences at the moment, most of the tests so far have strongly suggested that they happen entirely in the imagination of the person having it.

[QuantumDelta]

There's actually some interesting experiments going on with regards to Out Of Body experiences at the moment, most of the tests so far have strongly suggested that they happen entirely in the imagination of the person having it.

That's, pretty much exactly what I said

[Turambar]

There's actually some interesting experiments going on with regards to Out Of Body experiences at the moment, most of the tests so far have strongly suggested that they happen entirely in the imagination of the person having it.

sounds like Religion

[Mars]

I'm not so sure that is the case.

If we accept that the spritual plane exists, and that the soul exists as well, then is it not possible that, as the body fails, the soul begins to experience things on the spiritual plane? Senses it always had, but didn't use before because it was still contained by the body. Then the body revives, and the soul is fully re-integrated, but retains some slight memories of the spritual plane?

I don't think, you see, that the spiritual and physical planes are separate. They overlap and intersect. The human soul is one example. It is a spiritual thing housed in a physical body, using that body as a medium to interact on this level of reality. Therefore, you do not "go to" the spiritual plane when you die; you're already there, so to speak. But while still housed in your body, you are blocked from experiencing the spiritual plane, except in rare cases, and can only perceive the physical.

And I realize that the scientific types here will cry a load of BS on everything I just wrote, but I'm in a philosophizing mood.

Philosophizing IMHO is about humans trying to understand the world we live in, not humans making up imaginary planes of existence.

If you introduce religion, philosophy becomes about that - prior to that it's man's struggle to make sense of a non-human world.

[General Battuta]

I'm not so sure that is the case.

If we accept that the spritual plane exists, and that the soul exists as well, then is it not possible that, as the body fails, the soul begins to experience things on the spiritual plane? Senses it always had, but didn't use before because it was still contained by the body. Then the body revives, and the soul is fully re-integrated, but retains some slight memories of the spritual plane?

I don't think, you see, that the spiritual and physical planes are separate. They overlap and intersect. The human soul is one example. It is a spiritual thing housed in a physical body, using that body as a medium to interact on this level of reality. Therefore, you do not "go to" the spiritual plane when you die; you're already there, so to speak. But while still housed in your body, you are blocked from experiencing the spiritual plane, except in rare cases, and can only perceive the physical.

And I realize that the scientific types here will cry a load of BS on everything I just wrote, but I'm in a philosophizing mood.

Philosophizing IMHO is about humans trying to understand the world we live in, not humans making up imaginary planes of existence.

If you introduce religion, philosophy becomes about that - prior to that it's man's struggle to make sense of a non-human world.

I agree. If a piece of reasoning contains modules which I could swap out for content about the Tooth Fairy or the Force without meaningfully altering the argument, it doesn't feel parsimonious or useful to me.

[Dark Hunter]

I don't believe I ever suggested that what I said was useful in any way, nor even that it was correct (in fact, I'm sure I'm wrong about something in there).

It was just my opinion.

[Nemesis6]

A combination of pre-existing expectations, self-interested parents feeding him information directly and indirectly, bad reporting, and retroactive fabrication on everybody's part, all spiced with a heaping helping of confirmation bias.

I don't think money's the entire point, they probably genuinely believe, but people also genuinely believe Mother Mary was in that toast.

Sorry I'm late, but I'm quoting this because I love it!

And I'm quoting you because you're quoting the truth!

[Mustang19]

I didn't say it wasn't.

It's just that anyone who actually believes this story really needs to sit down and think a bit cause if it's true it's ****ing terrifying.

What, you didn't know Jesus was white and spoke English?

[Flipside]

Must admit the whole idea of sitting around on a cloud and playing a Harp for eternity always sounded more like Hell to me when I was a child

[Fury]

Hey Fury, you wanna try, maybe, not being a total douche about this?  Kthx.

Not really cuz that's the truth.

[Luis Dias]

Man and to think that I was chastised in the other thread for being blunt. Give them hell, u "angry atheists"!

[Bob-san]

You seem very sure of yourself.  Do you not consider the possibility you may be mistaken?

Not in the slightest. There has never been any concrete proof of God, Heaven or Hell existing in any form whatsoever. Same can be said for any other religion that has similar beliefs of higher power, Heaven and stuff.

How many of those experiments resulted in the participants gaining knowledge they could not possibly have known?

Irrelevant unless proven to be so. People always lie. Even if the parents don't, the kid could have gained this knowledge in many other ways the parents don't know of. Even if the kid doesn't lie per-se, he still could have gained that knowledge by earthly ways but doesn't remember it. These can always be explained by simple logic when all facts are known.

Since facts are never fully known in situations like those, making proper analysis is most often impossible. Yet, simplest explanation is almost always the correct explanation. The kid simply learned of it, lies about it or doesn't remember, or parents lie. Or they both lie.

If Heaven actually exists or had existed at some point, don't you think there would be proof of such instead of religions bickering about their own beliefs and rest of the world shaking their head at those so called believers. Especially since those beliefs are often used as an excuse for nothing but violence.

The only problem is it may be damn difficult to prove a lack of knowledge. While it may not be an active concern, these facts could be learned after the experience or may not be secrets at all. If this kid could tell me what happens tomorrow or what just happened in another room further away, I'd give him credit.

[General Battuta]

Man and to think that I was chastised in the other thread for being blunt. Give them hell, u "angry atheists"!

There weren't any religious people being stupid over there

[Mongoose]

Hey Fury, you wanna try, maybe, not being a total douche about this?  Kthx.

Not really cuz that's the truth.

I repeat.

[Marcov]

Aren't there a huge load of spiritual experiences across the globe? Especially with the not-city-type humans?

[Flipside]

Timothy Leary had lots of spiritual experiences.

Thing is, particularly in disasters etc, if you're lying on a hospital bed pumped full of Morphine, you'd consider Bugs Bunny walking through the ward as a manifestation of Jesus a perfectly believable event

[BloodEagle]

Must admit the whole idea of sitting around on a cloud and playing a Harp for eternity always sounded more like Hell to me when I was a child

I felt the same, actually.

When I was younger, I'd hoped it'd be more like Earth without all of the irritants.  That, and I wanted to drive a race-car full-speed into a wall, for the Hell of it.

Bugs Bunny [...] as a manifestation of Jesus [...]

I think I would actually enjoy seeing a Looney Toons version of certain Biblical events.

[NGTM-1R]

I have to say that for this sort of thing to be true, it implies that God and his mechanisms for determining when and where you part with this mortal shell are very fallible.

That doesn't sound very godlike.