[jr2]

I greatly dislike your poll options. No, moderators should not make offensive thread titles, whether split or unsplit; however, it is also up to the moderators to judge what is considered "offensive."

I don't know what recent action prompted this, but "Marcov does not want to debate" is not offensive. "Bad posts" is true but painful, and I wish GB hadn't been so blunt, but it isn't offensive or sarcastic.

Finally, "Re: <thread title>" is bad because it's the same naming scheme as actual replies to the original thread. Even "Re: Re: <thread title>" is too similar. "<optional new topid> (split from <thread title>)" is much better IMHO.

+1 exactly

[Mobius]

Finally, "Re: <thread title>" is bad because it's the same naming scheme as actual replies to the original thread. Even "Re: Re: <thread title>" is too similar. "<optional new topid> (split from <thread title>)" is much better IMHO.

Whatever points to the original thread prevents more confusion. "Re: <thread title>" is not the only option, of course.

[CommanderDJ]

These actions by moderators, with a few exceptions, generally don't bother me that much. I can see how the thread authors may take offense at their thread being renamed, no matter whether the title is offensive or not (which in itself is subjective). In the case of trolls, the mods are usually right in the threads they lock/split, and if someone's been enough of a jerk to piss off several people (ie not just a particular mod) then they probably deserve to have their thread laughed at a little.

In short: on principle I would stand against thread renaming to derogatory titles, but I can see the justification in renaming particularly epic fail threads.

[Sololop]

Makes the moderators look as immature as the ones who caused the thread split. I voted no, they shouldn't be used.

[Flipside]

I never knew this place was so full of Prima-Donnas who feel they have the right to act any way they want and then complain if it's pointed out that they can't in a manner which might bruise their feelings. Apparently no-one else but them counts.

[Shade]

I am of two minds on this issue. If a thread was split because someone was being an idiot/troll, then by all means mock them. On the other hand, if it were a straight foward derailment, with the seperate discussion being unrelated but still sane, make the title something which would let people actually identify what it's about.

[Flipside]

Well, if someone has an issue with what the thread has been renamed then they can feel free to PM the Mod involved or even speak to Admin if it hurts their feelings that deeply, but the whole idea that Moderators are some kind of robot who are merely here to service the  collective is an incorrect one. I've had to chase arguments not only through threads, but through several forums in the past, and whilst I don't mind moderating because I enjoy HLP, I am still one of the Forum Members.

The truth is, compare this site with most 'official' game forums and we are extremely tolerant in a lot of ways, and that's because it is staffed by fans of Freespace, not employees of the company that produced it. We don't ban people unless we have to, we almost never delete a thread, and 99% of official sites don't ask people to calm down or even bother to split the thread out for discussion, silly name or not, the posts would just vanish, and people would consider themselves lucky not to have been banned. Our technique is a little softer than that, we poke fun at people, but unless the discussion is disruptive, we tolerate it.

[Mobius]

I voted no, being an admin does not give you the right to have the last or absolute word about any kind of discussion on the forums.

Makes the moderators look as immature as the ones who caused the thread split. I voted no, they shouldn't be used.

I never knew this place was so full of Prima-Donnas who feel they have the right to act any way they want and then complain if it's pointed out that they can't in a manner which might bruise their feelings. Apparently no-one else but them counts.

Read the first two quotes in this post. The "problem" is not only limited to those who may feel offended, but also affects what other members think about moderators and their behavior. To me, making a fool of a member (regardless of what he did) with offensive thread titles sounds like pure abuse of moderation powers, because AFAIK moderators aren't allowed to do that.

If additional actions are to be taken, let the admins take care of it. Leave locked threads as they are, let people know where the split comes from to avoid confusion and prevent anger towards moderators from spreading out.

Well, if someone has an issue with what the thread has been renamed then they can feel free to PM the Mod involved or even speak to Admin if it hurts their feelings that deeply, but the whole idea that Moderators are some kind of robot who are merely here to service the  collective is an incorrect one. I've had to chase arguments not only through threads, but through several forums in the past, and whilst I don't mind moderating because I enjoy HLP, I am still one of the Forum Members.

The truth is, compare this site with most 'official' game forums and we are extremely tolerant in a lot of ways, and that's because it is staffed by fans of Freespace, not employees of the company that produced it, we don't ban people unless we have to, and we almost never delete a thread, and 99% of official sites don't ask people to calm down or even bother to split the thread out for discussion, silly name or not, the posts would just vanish, and people would consider themselves lucky not to have been banned. Our technique is a little softer than that, we poke fun at people, but unless the discussion is disruptive, we tolerate it.

You're implying that moderators and moderating are the same all throughout the internet, and this is not true. There are forums where moderators can ban and admins hardly read threads because they're too busy managing the site and doing other things.

On HLP, we all know what the role of a moderator is, and the thread naming convention we have recently seen nearly goes beyond that limit. It's extremely disturbing to see a moderator lock a thread and post the last comment, criticizing you without giving a chance to reply. Sure, there are PMs to handle problems like these (in the case that involved me, in fact, I relied on PMs to get an objectively thread deleted), but why wouldn't the moderators simply prevent that and put a real end to debates by just locking a thread?

[Snail]

It's the way the question and the options are phrased. There's "offensive" in the title right there.

[Mobius]

There's "sarcastic" up there, too. The two things can work together at times.

[The E]

Oh teh noes, teh sarcasm, it buuuuurnzzz ussss.

[Flipside]

You're implying that moderators and moderating are the same all throughout the internet, and this is not true. There are forums where moderators can ban and admins hardly read threads because they're too busy managing the site and doing other things.

No, I'm saying we are easier on you than a lot of games-site Moderators would be. If you would prefer, I can start Moderating as you want, enforcing the rules to the letter, locking the thread the moment the discussion gets heated and banning people for trolling. It'd empty General Discussion in under a month.

On HLP, we all know what the role of a moderator is, and the thread naming convention we have recently seen nearly goes beyond that limit. It's extremely disturbing to see a moderator lock a thread and post the last comment, criticizing you without giving a chance to reply. Sure, there are PMs to handle problems like these (in the case that involved me, in fact, I relied on PMs to get an objectively thread deleted), but why wouldn't the moderators simply prevent that and put a real end to debates by just locking a thread?

IF I had 'performed the role of a Moderator' as percieved on most official game sites, you wouldn't even be here to make this post, both you and Snail would have been perma-banned during your ongoing argument about Inferno that not only stretched over several threads a couple of years ago, but literally over several Forums. As it was, I had a shout, split and locked where I could and did what I could to limit the damage until you sorted it out.

Trust me, if sarcastic split-thread names are the most oppressive Moderation is getting, there really is no call to complain.

[Jeff Vader]

HLP is a democracy and the people should have a saying on matters.

...no wait.

HLP basically belongs to the admins. They elect moderators. The moderators have powers. They can use them. They should use their own judgement on how to use those powers. If a member thinks a moderator is abusing his/her powers, they probably should complain to the admins. The admins can then act or not act on the matter.

I wouldn't like really in-your-face offensive new thread titles like "<name> is a dickbutt", but come on. We're humans. Most of us have a sense of humour. Why so serious?

[Flipside]

Thing is, the whole reason that we have a system of warnings and Monkeys in place before we hit the Ban button is that we value member contribution, it is, quite literally, what keeps this site alive, you aren't our 'fans', you are all us, we're all FS2 fans. We don't like punishing people when they may contribute to the project as a whole.

A Sarcastic split title can often be considered a polite warning that people were getting close to what Moderators are prepared to tolerate by way of behaviour, if it goes too far, or is felt to be motivated by more than maintaining thread civility then, fine, take it up with the person involved.

The hint to what Moderators 'do' is in the name, we make sure the discussion stays Moderate, we can split or we can lock that's pretty much all the power we have to prevent flamefests etc. Sometimes we wish we could do more, and several people can probably thank their lucky stars that we cannot, but we are FS2 fans, not employees, not staff etc, but we are expected to make that extra effort for the sake of everyone. Sometimes we use an approach that is sarcastic, maybe because, like everyone else, we do have other things to be doing with our time.

[Mobius]

I'm just pointing out that certain behaviors may be damaging the reputation of moderators, and the way they will be treated during debates. It doesn't really affect me because I'll hardly have a lot of time to spend here in the future, and therefore will not even notice most splits that will occur, but that doesn't mean I cannot post my opinion on the matter. Plus, the preliminary results of this poll (though it'd be better to wait until we get 50 or so votes before coming to any conclusion) indicate that many community members find those titles dangerous, in the sense that they may result in additional flame wars later on. Question is: why would a moderator encourage that?


This is intended to be a peaceful discussion, and fortunately no references to any particular episode have been made. I surely won't spend the rest of the day here trying to convince you that what you're doing is wrong, of course. Just let the poll results speak for themselves.

[Dilmah G]

Mobius, whilst you and I are able to voice opinions about moderation decisions (I've done so prior, without the thread and poll), it's ultimately down to the Admins, as Jeff Vader says prior. The forum is not a democracy and yelling 'it's wrong, it's wrong!' and putting it in several different forms and implying it won't do you any good. The point has been made, and I daresay that all the mods have seen it, and most have commented.

I personally voted for Snuffy. Most of them seem in the same league as custom titles to me.

[Mobius]

But of course it's up to the admins, but they can't do that if members don't voice their opinions first. We have all the right to complain about things as long the complaints are reasonable. That said, let's see what comes out.

[Dilmah G]

I agree with your final two sentences, but the admins don't have to wait for a poll to make their decisions, if they're going to make any decision at all. They're probably just having a laugh about it over in the admin cave.

[Mobius]

Polls have their use in situations like this, though.

[Dilmah G]

Of course.