Author Topic: OT-Religion...  (Read 134712 times)

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Offline Crazy_Ivan80

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Quote
Originally posted by hotsnoj




Well then you going to hell! And I am sad about that. :( Very sad. :( :( :(


No he won't. Shrike stated not believing in your christian god, ergo he doens't believe in your christian heaven either, ergo he doesn't believe in your christian devil and hell either, ergo he won't go to hell.


And on your article: Bible references do not make science, but jibberish. That's why no creationist anywhere has ever come up with a real scientific paper (up for peer-review) that tries to refute evolution (learn to spell) with science. Why's that? Because creationism is rubbish.

As said before: science is not against religion, it's religion that is against science. If there is a god than there will come a day that science (and science alone) can prove (with science) that it exists. As it stands now nothing needs god to explain how things work. Science does that fine.

On another note: if we'd go by what appears to be your and your fellow religious (most probably Bible Belter/Religious Reich fanatics) people's ideas then we would still be living in the dark ages, where the inquisition ruled supreme. Burning everyone that dared to critise its views.

No thank you.
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Offline ZylonBane

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hotsnoj, you're not fooling anyone, y'know.

May as well throw another aerosol can on the fire...

True or False-- An athiest would adapt better to God being proven, than a Christian would to God being disproven.

Frankly I don't think the Chrisitans would fare so well. The decision to believe in God seems to be made from cultural indoctrination, or an inner desperate need to believe in something bigger. Loss of that cultural core/emotional crutch would probably be devastating.

As for the athiests/agnostics... well, if you're already living a moral, "do unto others" life, then there wouldn't really be a need for any change in your life at all. This God would be either compassionate and reasonable, in which case you go to Heaven for being a nice person, or a vengeful, petty, bipolar attention whore... in which case you're going to Hell no matter what.
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Offline wEvil

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Quote
Originally posted by ZylonBane
hotsnoj, you're not fooling anyone, y'know.

May as well throw another aerosol can on the fire...

True or False-- An athiest would adapt better to God being proven, than a Christian would to God being disproven.

Frankly I don't think the Chrisitans would fare so well. The decision to believe in God seems to be made from cultural indoctrination, or an inner desperate need to believe in something bigger. Loss of that cultural core/emotional crutch would probably be devastating.

As for the athiests/agnostics... well, if you're already living a moral, "do unto others" life, then there wouldn't really be a need for any change in your life at all. This God would be either compassionate and reasonable, in which case you go to Heaven for being a nice person, or a vengeful, petty, bipolar attention whore... in which case you're going to Hell no matter what.


Not quite the way i'd put it, but....

 

Offline HotSnoJ

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Quote
Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80


No he won't. Shrike stated not believing in your christian god, ergo he doens't believe in your christian heaven either, ergo he doesn't believe in your christian devil and hell either, ergo he won't go to hell.


And on your article: Bible references do not make science, but jibberish. That's why no creationist anywhere has ever come up with a real scientific paper (up for peer-review) that tries to refute evolution (learn to spell) with science. Why's that? Because creationism is rubbish.

As said before: science is not against religion, it's religion that is against science. If there is a god than there will come a day that science (and science alone) can prove (with science) that it exists. As it stands now nothing needs god to explain how things work. Science does that fine.

On another note: if we'd go by what appears to be your and your fellow religious (most probably Bible Belter/Religious Reich fanatics) people's ideas then we would still be living in the dark ages, where the inquisition ruled supreme. Burning everyone that dared to critise its views.

No thank you.


Ok now your logic just is not logic any more. Let me put what you just said in different wording.

I can see the winds effects. But I can't see the wind. So then it must not exist. Or. I have never seen Europe, so it must not exist. Now you might say, "I live in Europe you %#@%&!", Then I'd say, "But you have to be lying because I've never seen it so it can't exist."

That is what you said. So there are ultimate truths!
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Offline Styxx

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Damn, I knew I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut for so long... :D


Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
Technically speaking, the Earth is in a medium.... vaccum is not a true void.  Look close enough and it is not empty, it is a 'froth' of ephemeral, subatomic particles.  I read a theory somewhere that a truly empty region of space would result in a Big Bang.

Eh, I guess I showed you my own theory about that, right? ;)


Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
I know I'm responsible for my sins.  I accept that.

I also don't believe in the christian god, so the fact that I sin has little relevance to me.

Now, if you don't mind, I have some sinning to get done.


Indeed, check last colored line of signature. ;7


Quote
Originally posted by hotsnoj
Ok now your logic just is not logic any more. Let me put what you just said in different wording.

I can see the winds effects. But I can't see the wind. So then it must not exist. Or. I have never seen Europe, so it must not exist. Now you might say, "I live in Europe you %#@%&!", Then I'd say, "But you have to be lying because I've never seen it so it can't exist."

That is what you said. So there are ultimate truths!


But you can GO to europe any time tou want... :p
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Offline wEvil

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just give the UK a miss....unless you want your motivation to be sucked out by the primordial black hole that forms the foundations of the country?

 

Offline Vortex

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Quote
Originally posted by hotsnoj


Ok now your logic just is not logic any more. Let me put what you just said in different wording.

I can see the winds effects. But I can't see the wind. So then it must not exist. Or. I have never seen Europe, so it must not exist. Now you might say, "I live in Europe you %#@%&!", Then I'd say, "But you have to be lying because I've never seen it so it can't exist."

That is what you said. So there are ultimate truths!


I'm sorry but I think you took the reference of 'see' a little too literally....
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Offline Kellan

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Here's an interesting question for the religious types out there; purely theoretical. :D

If, through exploration of space we discovered a being that had all the powers over the Earth that your God had (such as ability to control weather) and was aware of all the Gospel, would you accept that as GOD?

Or would you say that because it exists in the context of God's Universe, it's not God, but a creation of God?

 

Offline Top Gun

  • 23
Quote
Originally posted by hotsnoj


Ok now your logic just is not logic any more. Let me put what you just said in different wording.

I can see the winds effects. But I can't see the wind. So then it must not exist. Or. I have never seen Europe, so it must not exist. Now you might say, "I live in Europe you %#@%&!", Then I'd say, "But you have to be lying because I've never seen it so it can't exist."

Bad Analogy! The existence of the wind can be explained through preassure systems and the very nature of its effects prove it to exist. The Earth could exist just as easily without god as it could with it, and there remains no proof (the bible isn't proof). You're confusing your causes and effects :D

 

Offline CP5670

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Quote
But does that make sense?!


Yes, scientists have concluded that the absence of something - i.e. nothing - is also something, and with only nothing in the universe, something would have to be generated (using the matter/antimatter principle), or else our 4D spacetime would either break itself apart or, more likely, shrink itself to a singular point. And yes it does make sense from a mathematical perspective. However, there is not enough evidence to make it a true law of science just yet.

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What stupidity?! Everything in that article is based on fact, since that's what you non-christians seem to be interested in. I used bible references to tell you were I got the stories from so YOU could look them up and see that I wasn't lying.


It is true, but most of it is irrelevant to the subject matter and/or contains inadequate examples in an attempt to prove a rule. (i.e. for every case where your explanation turns out to be true, i can show you ten where it is false)

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It was more for his love for us that he did it. We needed to be shown love so we could love (botherly love not the spouse kinda love) others. That's part of the Christian doctorin.

Make no mistake about it. Jesus is a PART God. Jesus + Holy Spirit + The Father = GOD That's the Trinity.


:rolleyes: And your argument behind this is? (and if you are going to say that the bible said so, be sure to have an explanation for why the bible is correct as well)

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Now, if you don't mind, I have some sinning to get done.


:lol: Great! :yes:

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Well then you going to hell!


As I said twice already, this is really a great thing. Those who go to heaven never find out what hell is like, making them less knowledgeable in one way, and those who go to hell get to be with all the other smart people who refused to take this nonsense for an explanation. :D

Quote

And on your article: Bible references do not make science, but jibberish. That's why no creationist anywhere has ever come up with a real scientific paper (up for peer-review) that tries to refute evolution (learn to spell) with science. Why's that? Because creationism is rubbish.


LOL! Absolutely correct! :yes:

Quote
True or False-- An athiest would adapt better to God being proven, than a Christian would to God being disproven.

Frankly I don't think the Chrisitans would fare so well. The decision to believe in God seems to be made from cultural indoctrination, or an inner desperate need to believe in something bigger. Loss of that cultural core/emotional crutch would probably be devastating.


Exactly what I was saying earlier! These ideas has been so finely ingrained into the minds of the people (at an early age too, so more ideas build up on htme), that they will outright refuse to believe anything else. For the fourth time, this is precisely what happened with the planetary motion principles when Galileo and Kepler, and later Newton discovered the mathematics behind it all. As Crazy Ivan said, if we did not have these great contrarian minds coming up, we would still be living in a middle age.

Quote
Ok now your logic just is not logic any more. Let me put what you just said in different wording.

I can see the winds effects. But I can't see the wind. So then it must not exist. Or. I have never seen Europe, so it must not exist. Now you might say, "I live in Europe you %#@%&!", Then I'd say, "But you have to be lying because I've never seen it so it can't exist."

That is what you said. So there are ultimate truths!


Here is an example of irrelevant points to back your argument. If you can perceive the effects of the wind, then you can indirectly perceive the wind as well. Now, with this god, we cannot percieve the effects or the actual uh, being, so it lies in the realm of the perceptive only, where anything can be shown to exist.

Quote
Or would you say that because it exists in the context of God's Universe, it's not God, but a creation of God?


:D Good one; it's kind of obvious what the answer will be, though, or they will try to avoid the question. The common masses for centuries have done just the latter when it comes to these types of questions. :p
« Last Edit: May 15, 2002, 10:33:49 am by 296 »

  

Offline Top Gun

  • 23
Quote
Originally posted by Kellan
Here's an interesting question for the religious types out there; purely theoretical. :D

If, through exploration of space we discovered a being that had all the powers over the Earth that your God had (such as ability to control weather) and was aware of all the Gospel, would you accept that as GOD?

Or would you say that because it exists in the context of God's Universe, it's not God, but a creation of God?

I guess it meets all of the criteria for it but to rule out the possibility of an even more all knowing all seeing all powerful being would be ignorant. The same as it would be to totally rule out the existence of a god at the minute, although the chances of it are small. What we can do is aknowledge that this "god", should it exist, has a very, very, very, very small chance of being the one mentioned in the Bible.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2002, 12:45:25 pm by 266 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
That would be a big compliment, actually, considering how stupid humans are... :D

Religion is a product of that stupidity

I seriously believe that Ministers, Priests, etc. People who have devoted their entire lives to their respective religions would literaly go insane if they were convinced that it was all bull****.
Some of us can handle the unexplained (like me) but others who can't must have some kind of religion to fill in the void in their phyche.

Religion is the peace that shattered minds need.  People "Turn to God" when they should really be fixing their problems.
While your praying to your invisable man, your problems will not go away and if they do, they call it a "Miracle" or an "Act of God"

These people put down the crack pipe and pick up a bible. Substituting one drug for another.



In case you haven't noticed I am an "Extreme Athiest" :D
« Last Edit: May 15, 2002, 02:18:58 pm by 710 »
Watching from the background since 17 April 2002.

 
The EU is yet another pre-mature attempt to globalize this planet.
Our species has not yet evolved to the point of the global-state.
We cant even keep our nation-states in line so how are we supposed to maintain an entire planet?
Watching from the background since 17 April 2002.

 

Offline Top Gun

  • 23
Quote
Originally posted by killadonuts
These people put down the crack pipe and pick up a bible. Substituting one drug for another.

Hmm, Interesting :nod:  Personally I prefer Richard Dawkins's explanation of it as a Meme (comparable to a virus in computers). This seems to cover all forms of Human Stupidity rather than just one.

 

Offline Crazy_Ivan80

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Quote
Originally posted by killadonuts
The EU is yet another pre-mature attempt to globalize this planet.


wrong: the EU is the attempt to stop the French and the Germans from going to war with each other and wrecking the entire continent. All the rest is added... content yeah, that's the word...

But that's another discussion.
It came from outer space! What? Dunno, but it's going back on the next flight!
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Offline CP5670

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Quote
Religion is a product of that stupidity

I seriously believe that Ministers, Priests, etc. People who have devoted their entire lives to their respective religions would literaly go insane if they were convinced that it was all bull****.
Some of us can handle the unexplained (like me) but others who can't must have some kind of religion to fill in the void in their phyche.

Religion is the peace that shattered minds need. People "Turn to God" when they should really be fixing their problems.
While your praying to your invisable man, your problems will not go away and if they do, they call it a "Miracle" or an "Act of God"

These people put down the crack pipe and pick up a bible. Substituting one drug for another.

In case you haven't noticed I am an "Extreme Athiest" :D


Perfect, simply perfect. You are my kind of guy as far as this subject goes. :D :D

Quote
The EU is yet another pre-mature attempt to globalize this planet.
Our species has not yet evolved to the point of the global-state.
We cant even keep our nation-states in line so how are we supposed to maintain an entire planet?


Well, the alternative to civilization is anarchism, which leads to a standstill in terms of progress. I think that the global state is merely a logical continuation of the social advance of our civilization, one that will eventually culminate in a complete cognitive unity by means of technology. The EU is merely a small step towards that end.

 

Offline HotSnoJ

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Ok now your logic just is not logic any more. Let me put what you just said in different wording.

I can see the winds effects. But I can't see the wind. So then it must not exist. Or. I have never seen Europe, so it must not exist. Now you might say, "I live in Europe you %#@%&!", Then I'd say, "But you have to be lying because I've never seen it so it can't exist."

That is what you said. So there are ultimate truths!
Quote
Here is an example of irrelevant points to back your argument. If you can perceive the effects of the wind, then you can indirectly perceive the wind as well. Now, with this god, we cannot percieve the effects or the actual uh, being, so it lies in the realm of the perceptive only, where anything can be shown to exist.

:confused: (again)

Here is a evolution view of the wind thing.
The trees sway and rustle (meaning evolution) because it is what matter does. There is no outside force (God) acting upon them.

Matter+Energy=Design Is not the right equation Matter+Energy+Designer=Design, how humans make things. Or If you believe in the Bible God made everything in the universe.

Do you think that a mountain can explode and the rubble will make a highly ordered city? Or a tornado go though a juck yard and put a buncha stuff together to make a 747?
I have big plans, now if only I could see them through.

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------------------------------
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Quote
Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80


wrong: the EU is the attempt to stop the French and the Germans from going to war with each other and wrecking the entire continent. All the rest is added... content yeah, that's the word...

But that's another discussion.

Nope, I'm right and your wrong :p
The next continent to "Unify" will be Africa.
Maybe they wont be such babies about it
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Offline Stryke 9

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Quote
Originally posted by hotsnoj
Do you think that a mountain can explode and the rubble will make a highly ordered city? Or a tornado go though a juck yard and put a buncha stuff together to make a 747?


Highly unlikely, but it's a poor analogy. You and I are no 747, nor anything else of that sort. It takes a little imagination to think of a universe that came out completely differently due to some event or other, sure, but that's entirely because we're used to what there currently is- and it doesn't take a whole lot. We're nothing special, we just ended up this way, and as far as I can tell we didn't end up recreating anything that was constructed by conscious intent, such as a city or airplane.

 

Offline CP5670

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Quote
Ok now your logic just is not logic any more. Let me put what you just said in different wording.

I can see the winds effects. But I can't see the wind. So then it must not exist. Or. I have never seen Europe, so it must not exist. Now you might say, "I live in Europe you %#@%&!", Then I'd say, "But you have to be lying because I've never seen it so it can't exist."

That is what you said. So there are ultimate truths!


You're just repeating exactly what you said earlier without even bothering to change the wording. :rolleyes: What exactly is your point?

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That is what you said. So there are ultimate truths!


Show me where I said that in there.

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Matter+Energy=Design Is not the right equation Matter+Energy+Designer=Design, how humans make things. Or If you believe in the Bible God made everything in the universe.


No clue what point you are trying to make here; the will of the designer is just another element of this "matter+energy." (even those two things are one and the same)

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[Do you think that a mountain can explode and the rubble will make a highly ordered city? Or a tornado go though a juck yard and put a buncha stuff together to make a 747?


The probability is low, but of course it is possible if the particles arrange themselves accordingly. But I fail to see what that has to do with anything else in the post.

Quote
Nope, I'm right and your wrong  
The next continent to "Unify" will be Africa.
Maybe they wont be such babies about it


They will unify everything soon enough. :D
« Last Edit: May 15, 2002, 03:28:49 pm by 296 »