[Grizzly]

I have always been slightly fascinated by Americans activively persuing their right to be able to shoot someone in the face at all times. Considering that many people here are Americans and/or have (once been able to / enabled others to accurately) shoot things (which may or may not include people), I am interested in your views on this subject, and i'd like some background information as well.

[Kopachris]

I'm more fascinated by Switzerland's fascination with guns and shooting things.  Shooting is their national pastime, apparently.  Aren't they supposed to be pacifists?  And yet most of the population has guns, and the country itself has compulsory military service.  Maybe that's why no one wants to go to war with them.

As for Americans, it probably has something to do with the idea that we asserted our freedom with guns during the Revolutionary War, and so we'd like to hold on to them in case we need to assert our freedom and/or protect our property/family.

[Nemesis6]

You sound like one of them communists! Why do you hate freedom so much? Gur'back 'ta RUSHA!

Seriously though, this is indeed a peculiarity of American society. When you think about how many gun accidents happen each year, be it injuries, negligent homicides, and homicide with mitigating factors, like you shooting someone who just wanted your wallet, it becomes a very moot issue, morality-wise. I think of all countries, America is the one country that SHOULDN'T have weapons circulating among its citizens, seeing how paranoid Americans are. And yeah, I know not all Americans are paranoid, but it's an intrinsic part of their society. They got it right with the pepper spray and tazers, though. Those, of course, aren't allowed here in Scandinavia, which is a shame for those who have to live in our capital cities.

[headdie]

I'm more fascinated by Switzerland's fascination with guns and shooting things.  Shooting is their national pastime, apparently.  Aren't they supposed to be pacifists?  And yet most of the population has guns, and the country itself has compulsory military service.  Maybe that's why no one wants to go to war with them.

As for Americans, it probably has something to do with the idea that we asserted our freedom with guns during the Revolutionary War, and so we'd like to hold on to them in case we need to assert our freedom and/or protect our property/family.

I cant speak for America but i believe in Switzerland there is required national service and reservist period afterwards during which former soldiers are required to keep an issued weapon at their home, i also believe it is these weapons behind most murders resulting from domestic disputes.

edit

forgot to mention that they are not pacifists, but a nation with a tradition of international neutrality which they will protect by force if necessary, (at one point i believe all bridges into the country were rigged to blow

[General Battuta]

Gun suicides way outnumber gun homicides (which is not an argument, just (iirc) a fact).

[JCDNWarrior]

The reason they want to be armed, is to be able to succesfully resist and overthrow illegal or unconstitutional governments. It's a safeguard for if a tyranny managed to take control of the country's government. The people who wrote the Bill of Rights and Constitution weren't genius, i think, but rather just learned from what has happened in Europe many times before the American revolution.

In the case of Switzerland it's somewhat the same, and you notice it hasn't been attacked (Also has to do with geography and the mastery of guerilla tactics). What Headdie says is correct though, it's not as free as in the USA - It's part of the national service part, so they can organise defenses quickly and organise guerilla efforts.

Illegal guns here in the Netherlands didnt stop the dozens of assasinations, murders and shootings the past ten years. Criminals always manage to get guns, somehow.

[StarSlayer]

You sound like one of them communists! Why do you hate freedom so much? Gur'back 'ta RUSHA!

Seriously though, this is indeed a peculiarity of American society. When you think about how many gun accidents happen each year, be it injuries, negligent homicides, and homicide with mitigating factors, like you shooting someone who just wanted your wallet, it becomes a very moot issue, morality-wise. I think of all countries, America is the one country that SHOULDN'T have weapons circulating among its citizens, seeing how paranoid Americans are. And yeah, I know not all Americans are paranoid, but it's an intrinsic part of their society. They got it right with the pepper spray and tazers, though. Those, of course, aren't allowed here in Scandinavia, which is a shame for those who have to live in our capital cities.

Ah geez better eliminate booze and smoking as well, I mean if were going to talk about ridding ourselves of health concerns...   

[zookeeper]

The reason they want to be armed, is to be able to succesfully resist and overthrow illegal or unconstitutional governments. It's a safeguard for if a tyranny managed to take control of the country's government.

Of course that's the rationale, but considering today's difference in civilian and military weaponry and other resources, the civilians wouldn't be able to overthrow such a government anyway. The best you'd get would be a big bunch of insurgents with lots of guns, and I guess we know how well such a situation tends to turn out for everyone involved.

Safeguards are good, but that one isn't really an effective one anymore.

[Nemesis6]

You sound like one of them communists! Why do you hate freedom so much? Gur'back 'ta RUSHA!

Seriously though, this is indeed a peculiarity of American society. When you think about how many gun accidents happen each year, be it injuries, negligent homicides, and homicide with mitigating factors, like you shooting someone who just wanted your wallet, it becomes a very moot issue, morality-wise. I think of all countries, America is the one country that SHOULDN'T have weapons circulating among its citizens, seeing how paranoid Americans are. And yeah, I know not all Americans are paranoid, but it's an intrinsic part of their society. They got it right with the pepper spray and tazers, though. Those, of course, aren't allowed here in Scandinavia, which is a shame for those who have to live in our capital cities.

Ah geez better eliminate booze and smoking as well, I mean if were going to talk about ridding ourselves of health concerns...   

Problem is, booze and smoking allows you to kill YOURSELF. And while they can influence your behavior in a negative way, they're not designed to kill other people. Guns are, and that's what they routinely do.

I don't think Americans should have access to firearms like this. They have their second amendment, sure, but I really don't think the founding fathers foresaw the appearance of handguns, automatic rifles, and heavy machine guns. That is to say, their support of the second amendment was based on how guns were back then; Largely inaccurate, slow, and cumbersome. They can stand against tyranny all they want; they have the biggest military in the world, and they have what they think is a democracy, so what's the need for guns?

[Mustang19]

I have always been slightly fascinated by Americans activively persuing their right to be able to shoot someone in the face at all times. Considering that many people here are Americans and/or have (once been able to / enabled others to accurately) shoot things (which may or may not include people), I am interested in your views on this subject, and i'd like some background information as well.

Guns have been a big deal to Americans for a long time, going back before the revolutionary war when the majority of the population was subsistence farmers and hunters/trappers, as opposed to the more urbanized/wage labor type population in Europe. Simply put a "frontier culture" arose in the United States and an important part of this culture was owning a gun. Wikipedia as always has more information. It's not just what the Founding Fathers wanted, there was great practical use to owning a gun in early America. Also, penis.

The Constitution doesn't necessarily guarantee individual gun ownership. The amendment in question reads,

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

So it's not clear what is meant by "the people" or if only a "well regulated militia" can own guns, but this amendment has been upheld by the Supreme Court under the individual rights interpretation which allows personal gun ownership. In any case an argument based on the constitution is silly because the drafters realized that the United States might be a very different society 200 years into the future and had the foresight allow amendments to the constitution. The Second Amendment doesn't allow private ownership of tanks or nuclear weapons, though, which would be more useful today if you're trying to overthrow tyranny.

[Grizzly]

Illegal guns here in the Netherlands didnt stop the dozens of assasinations, murders and shootings the past ten years. Criminals always manage to get guns, somehow.

Although getting guns illegally used to be a lot more expensive then getting them legally ($2500 as opposed to $450 for a glock pistol Source:NRC Handelsblad), there is a rising case of criminals changing so called 'alarm guns' (which only make loud noise) into actual lethal weapons.

[StarSlayer]

You sound like one of them communists! Why do you hate freedom so much? Gur'back 'ta RUSHA!

Seriously though, this is indeed a peculiarity of American society. When you think about how many gun accidents happen each year, be it injuries, negligent homicides, and homicide with mitigating factors, like you shooting someone who just wanted your wallet, it becomes a very moot issue, morality-wise. I think of all countries, America is the one country that SHOULDN'T have weapons circulating among its citizens, seeing how paranoid Americans are. And yeah, I know not all Americans are paranoid, but it's an intrinsic part of their society. They got it right with the pepper spray and tazers, though. Those, of course, aren't allowed here in Scandinavia, which is a shame for those who have to live in our capital cities.

Ah geez better eliminate booze and smoking as well, I mean if were going to talk about ridding ourselves of health concerns...   

Problem is, booze and smoking allows you to kill YOURSELF. And while they can influence your behavior in a negative way, they're not designed to kill other people. Guns are, and that's what they routinely do.

I don't think Americans should have access to firearms like this. They have their second amendment, sure, but I really don't think the founding fathers foresaw the appearance of handguns, automatic rifles, and heavy machine guns. That is to say, their support of the second amendment was based on how guns were back then; Largely inaccurate, slow, and cumbersome. They can stand against tyranny all they want; they have the biggest military in the world, and they have what they think is a democracy, so what's the need for guns?

Tell that to someone run over by a ****tard that's DUI .  In the grand scheme of things arguing that firearms are bad because they kill people is a moot point when alcohol claims three times as many lives and smoking kills off about the same in a month as guns in a year.  Plus I dunno maybe in the boonies it's different but people around here aren't exactly driving around in F-150s with M2 Brownings on pintle mounts.  Automatic rifles and heavy machine guns are not exactly street legal; America isn't exactly downtown Mogadishu

[Mustang19]

Just sayin...

[Topgun]

I am 100% pro gun rights. ask me anything.

[jr2]

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Wrong.

That is indeed a quote from the second amendment to the US Constitution, part of the amendments called the Bill of Rights, and it reads:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Please do note the comma that everyone so loves to omit.  (Not saying you did it on purpose).

EDIT: And Mustang, I'd love to see how many of those countries listed above the United States in that graph have banned the personal ownership of firearms.  I haven't checked it out, but I'm curious. 

[Mustang19]

Please do note the comma that everyone so loves to omit.  (Not saying you did it on purpose).

You are quoting the one passed by congress, I am quoting the one ratified by state legislatures.

[Mustang19]

I am 100% pro gun rights. ask me anything.

No thank you. If you base gun ownership on rights rather than trying to prevent people from getting killed then we have different values.

[jr2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights#cite_note-4  >  http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

And if you want to see what the states themselves say:

http://www.saf.org/Constitutions.html

[Topgun]

I am 100% pro gun rights. ask me anything.

No thank you. If you base gun ownership on rights rather than trying to prevent people from getting killed then we have different values.

Oh, Im pretty sure we do

[Mustang19]

jr2 is a winrar.

Okay Topgun, what do you think of private ownership of antitank missiles and 50 cals? I mean really, the only use for those kinds of weapons would be to overthrow a tyrannical government.