Author Topic: RTS  (Read 10840 times)

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Offline Dragon

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OK, I think I've came up with a solution to ship movement orders.
Make some way to order them to follow waypoints, then allow player to create (or "teleport" from some offscreen location) and manipulate waypoint patches with one waypoint (perhaps by "slaving" a waypoint position to an untargetable, instant jumpable and invisible ship), which would be deleted (or reset to it's "locked and off screen" status) as soon as the waypoint is reached. This may even work as a FRED-only solution, but I'm unsure of that.

 

Offline General Battuta

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OK, I think I've came up with a solution to ship movement orders.
Make some way to order them to follow waypoints, then allow player to create (or "teleport" from some offscreen location) and manipulate waypoint patches with one waypoint (perhaps by "slaving" a waypoint position to an untargetable, instant jumpable and invisible ship), which would be deleted (or reset to it's "locked and off screen" status) as soon as the waypoint is reached. This may even work as a FRED-only solution, but I'm unsure of that.

This is something we've wanted to be able to do for years, but it doesn't work.

 

Offline Dragon

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What is the problem? Ordering a ship to follow waypoints, or tying a waypoint to a ship?
On the other hand, it'd make sense if the admiral isn't controlling every move of ships under his command, instead giving general orders (such as "attack this", "protect this", etc.) and giving coordinates to jump into the battle. If we only could get capship AI to be a bit smarter (I'd like to see them do things such as circle-strafing, like slide-equipped fighters do).

 

Offline General Battuta

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Waypoints can be moved, but the AI does not update its knowledge of their position.

 

Offline Thaeris

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You know, from a programming standpoint, that reminds me of when I was making my automatic terrain generator... I needed to make a vector array, NOT just a simple array! I wonder if (by whatever means data is parsed to initial ship orders) it's just a raw numeric value that's being fed to the given ship. That would explain why the ship cannot be manipulated dynamically. Of course, I can't be the first one to think of that.
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Offline General Battuta

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You know, from a programming standpoint, that reminds me of when I was making my automatic terrain generator... I needed to make a vector array, NOT just a simple array! I wonder if (by whatever means data is parsed to initial ship orders) it's just a raw numeric value that's being fed to the given ship. That would explain why the ship cannot be manipulated dynamically. Of course, I can't be the first one to think of that.

Take a look in waypoint.cpp, have fun.

 

Offline KyadCK

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The bigger problem is that the Game-master (as i am becoming inclined to call it too) while able to tell fighters/bombers what to do (attack/disable ect) cap ships have all of 2 commands: Attack and Depart

This seriously limits the GM's capability to do much in the way of usefulness, though it does take all AI control off the player's shoulders

The ability to left click on a ship, and have that ship be made your actual target (like H and T do, but more akin to the "target in front of" command) while click and drag do the normal "rts" style target, making it much easier for the GM to do the AI controlling instead of being forced to cycle through all of them would be useful, but i guess setting targets to your escort menu will work for now.

AI commands being placed on that convenient yet unused command bar that only currently supports that "micro-jump" symbol would be very cool as well
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Offline Thaeris

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You know, from a programming standpoint, that reminds me of when I was making my automatic terrain generator... I needed to make a vector array, NOT just a simple array! I wonder if (by whatever means data is parsed to initial ship orders) it's just a raw numeric value that's being fed to the given ship. That would explain why the ship cannot be manipulated dynamically. Of course, I can't be the first one to think of that.

Take a look in waypoint.cpp, have fun.

...Maybe later...

:shaking:

However, I WOULD guess that as waypoints were never designed to move in the beginning, and thus the data would be compiled for a given mission in FRED after saving the file. This data then gets associated with a ship, and when it does, it is NOT dynamic. Thus, moving a point in-mission does nothing, as the new data cannot link to the target ship or ships.

Master of the Obvious, signing out.
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 

Offline Dragon

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You could give more possible menu commands to warships by modifying the objecttypes.tbl (and thus the AI behaviour).
Capship AI would have to be overhauled to exploit the full potential of an RTS interface.
Also, I wonder if a ship can't be used as a "waypoint" (and a capship ordered to follow it by an order). That would simplify things, but could cause problems with AI.

 

Offline General Battuta

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You know, from a programming standpoint, that reminds me of when I was making my automatic terrain generator... I needed to make a vector array, NOT just a simple array! I wonder if (by whatever means data is parsed to initial ship orders) it's just a raw numeric value that's being fed to the given ship. That would explain why the ship cannot be manipulated dynamically. Of course, I can't be the first one to think of that.

Take a look in waypoint.cpp, have fun.

...Maybe later...

:shaking:

However, I WOULD guess that as waypoints were never designed to move in the beginning, and thus the data would be compiled for a given mission in FRED after saving the file. This data then gets associated with a ship, and when it does, it is NOT dynamic. Thus, moving a point in-mission does nothing, as the new data cannot link to the target ship or ships.

Master of the Obvious, signing out.

This would be a great hypothesis except that dynamic waypoints did apparently work at some point in the past. It might be how things are now though.

 
You know, from a programming standpoint, that reminds me of when I was making my automatic terrain generator... I needed to make a vector array, NOT just a simple array! I wonder if (by whatever means data is parsed to initial ship orders) it's just a raw numeric value that's being fed to the given ship. That would explain why the ship cannot be manipulated dynamically. Of course, I can't be the first one to think of that.

I have ALWAYS wondered about dynamic waypoints. I always figured they were pretty much impossible to implement. Are you saying that it is even remotely possible? AKA, having new waypoints be created in real time during gameplay...

Take a look in waypoint.cpp, have fun.

...Maybe later...

:shaking:

However, I WOULD guess that as waypoints were never designed to move in the beginning, and thus the data would be compiled for a given mission in FRED after saving the file. This data then gets associated with a ship, and when it does, it is NOT dynamic. Thus, moving a point in-mission does nothing, as the new data cannot link to the target ship or ships.

Master of the Obvious, signing out.

This would be a great hypothesis except that dynamic waypoints did apparently work at some point in the past. It might be how things are now though.


I have ALWAYS wondered about dynamic waypoints. I always figured they were pretty much impossible to implement. Are you saying that it is even remotely possible? AKA, having new waypoints be created in real time during gameplay that correlate to real time data, such as ship locations, or in the terms of this potential RTS, anywhere the player clicks?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 09:15:58 am by Insomniac34 »

 

Offline The E

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At the moment, no, it is not.

Technically though, it should be possible to code it. (NOTE: This is NOT on my todo list, not even near it. I have other things to do for FSO first).
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Let us begin to feel again
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Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
You know, from a programming standpoint, that reminds me of when I was making my automatic terrain generator... I needed to make a vector array, NOT just a simple array! I wonder if (by whatever means data is parsed to initial ship orders) it's just a raw numeric value that's being fed to the given ship. That would explain why the ship cannot be manipulated dynamically. Of course, I can't be the first one to think of that.

I have ALWAYS wondered about dynamic waypoints. I always figured they were pretty much impossible to implement. Are you saying that it is even remotely possible? AKA, having new waypoints be created in real time during gameplay...

Take a look in waypoint.cpp, have fun.

...Maybe later...

:shaking:

However, I WOULD guess that as waypoints were never designed to move in the beginning, and thus the data would be compiled for a given mission in FRED after saving the file. This data then gets associated with a ship, and when it does, it is NOT dynamic. Thus, moving a point in-mission does nothing, as the new data cannot link to the target ship or ships.

Master of the Obvious, signing out.

This would be a great hypothesis except that dynamic waypoints did apparently work at some point in the past. It might be how things are now though.


I have ALWAYS wondered about dynamic waypoints. I always figured they were pretty much impossible to implement. Are you saying that it is even remotely possible? AKA, having new waypoints be created in real time during gameplay that correlate to real time data, such as ship locations, or in the terms of this potential RTS, anywhere the player clicks?

Created, no, moved, hopefully.

 

Offline Mars

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Offline KyadCK

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kinda spit off from the other thread as that started going into fps territory, but how hard would it be to make a special hud tbm for the RTS mod to use only some parts, specificly:

time
escort
directives
messages
target


would make it much easier as it would no longer be required to go through a few dozen clicks in hud options to get it all right
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Offline SypheDMar

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It shouldn't be hard at all. Just delete the entries in the tbm that aren't needed. It'd be easier for me to figure out if I have a simple diagram of what you want.

 

Offline KyadCK

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something like this, (pardon the horrible quality), rts control/map are in the script already. perhaps later i'll look into moveing things around to look nice, but for now this is all i need

[attachment deleted by ninja]
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Offline SypheDMar

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Code: [Select]
#Gauge Config
$Base: (1440, 900)
$Required Aspect: Wide Screen ; Can be "Wide Screen" or "Full Screen" ATM
$Min: (1280, 720) ; These Min and Max fields are Inclusive
$Max: (1920, 1080)
$Gauges:
+Messages:
Position: (7, 6)
+Training Messages:
Position: (533, 146)
+Multiplayer Messages:
Position: (11, 281)
+Wingman Status:
Position: (1311, 169)
+Talking Head:
Position: (7, 66)
+Directives:
Position: (7, 326)
+Objective Notify:
Position: (613, 216)
+Squad Message:
Position: (1163, 6)
+Escort View:
Position: (1238, 326)
+Target Monitor:
Position: (7, 691)
+Extra Target Data:
Position: (7, 647)
+Text Warnings:
Position: (720, 322)
+Threat Indicator:
Position: (847, 317)
+Voice Status:
position: (7, 193)
+Ping:
Position: (1260, 6)
+Lag:
Position: (881, 620)
+Offscreen Indicator:
+Orientation Tee:
Position: (720, 450)
$End Gauges
#End
See if this works.

 

Offline KyadCK

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while i lose the main reticle, everything else seems to stay in place
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Offline SypheDMar

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Derp. I missed an important flag.
Code: [Select]
$Load Retail Configuration: No

#Gauge Config
$Base: (1440, 900)
$Required Aspect: Wide Screen ; Can be "Wide Screen" or "Full Screen" ATM
$Min: (1280, 720) ; These Min and Max fields are Inclusive
$Max: (1920, 1080)
$Gauges:
+Messages:
Position: (7, 6)
+Training Messages:
Position: (533, 146)
+Multiplayer Messages:
Position: (11, 281)
+Support:
Position: (645, 625)
+Wingman Status:
Position: (1311, 169)
+Talking Head:
Position: (7, 66)
+Directives:
Position: (7, 326)
+Objective Notify:
Position: (613, 216)
+Squad Message:
Position: (1163, 6)
+Escort View:
Position: (1238, 326)
+Target Monitor:
Position: (7, 691)
+Extra Target Data:
Position: (7, 647)
+Text Warnings:
Position: (720, 322)
+Center Reticle:
Position: (700, 438)
+Mini Target Shields:
Position: (705, 552)
+Threat Indicator:
Position: (847, 317)
+Voice Status:
position: (7, 193)
+Ping:
Position: (1260, 6)
+Lag:
Position: (881, 620)
+Supernova:
Position: (239, 199)

+Target Brackets: ; Target Brackets, Lock Indicator, Lead Indicator, and Offscreen Indicator don't need a "Position:" field.
+Lead Indicator:
+Lock Indicator:
+Offscreen Indicator:
+Hostile Triangle:
Position: (720, 450)
+Target Triangle:
Position: (720, 450)
+Orientation Tee:
Position: (720, 450)
+Mission Time:
Position: (1363, 839)
$End Gauges
#End
Guaranteed to work for the resolution stated.