Author Topic: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat  (Read 23310 times)

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Offline CountBuggula

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
Here's what I'm envisioning as a good compromise of your newer nose shape but with a more lambda-feeling cockpit:


I have to disagree on that one - that's pretty "blah" appearance-wise.

The AG canopy is actually, as far as Imperial fighters go, pretty good. The break at the end of the forward frame lifts the canopy slightly, allowing the pilot a degree of visibility to the rear. My take on the design pushes this a little further still, giving the apex of the canopy a slight peak... stand by for drawings...

I'm not saying it's good design for a fighter, I just think it fits much better, thematically.  And it also seems to go along with the overall philosophy of the gunboat - loads of munitions pointed at the front for convoy/starship raids but not much of a dogfighter.

Okay easy enough to compare:

   

What do people prefer?


Re: the lines on the lambda shuttle, they're on every image of the Lambda I've seen .. and they're always in the same place. So I think they are part of the cockpit, reflections tend to move with the light source.

I think it goes without saying that I like the one on the right better.  Thanks for pulling together that comparison so quickly!  That's exactly what I had in mind.

 

Offline TomShak

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
You're welcome :) The cockpit isn't actually hard to change :) delete a few triangles, create a few more, tell it to smooth the cockpit over ...

Personally I kind of like them both. To me the left one makes more sense as a fighter cockpit, but the right one does have stronger Lambda heritage ... let's see what other people think.

 

Offline brandx0

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
I'm more of a fan of the right one myself.

And to answer the question about the Lambda, those aren't reflections.  Trust me, I textured it and I've spend hours and hours looking over photos of the filming model. 
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Offline Thaeris

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
Alright, time for pictures. Since most of the primary shape is there, relying on this for fine details wouldn't be prudent, especially when considering that the drawing hasn't been tested critically to ensure that all the details line up. However, there are some things which it points out effectively. Note that the quality on this isn't great, as it was scanned at work...



Again, there is a slight rise to the canopy, and another subtle rise in the rear fuselage. The canopy also arcs out slightly on the center panels, along with the rest of the central hull plating. Again, it's a very subtle curve. The main lines down the side of the nose profile remain straight until the tip of the nose is reached, where a slight curve is permissable.

The cut-outs on the side of the hull are probably over-exaggerated. However, you need to make sure you join the missile launcher/engine pods to the main hull properly - a small cut out is probably the only way to do that.

And yes, I do advocate keeping the canopy framing. Why? The fighter was originally designed with framing, and it looks at home with it. It's an assault fighter, remember, and the frame, however light, keeps that well-armored canopy securely mounted to that well-armored hull. Unlike other Imperial fighers, the AG is a tough cookie.
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Offline CountBuggula

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
And yes, I do advocate keeping the canopy framing. Why? The fighter was originally designed with framing, and it looks at home with it. It's an assault fighter, remember, and the frame, however light, keeps that well-armored canopy securely mounted to that well-armored hull. Unlike other Imperial fighers, the AG is a tough cookie.

As this is an EU ship that was never seen in the movies, we're got a lot of freedom designing this one - just because it appeared in some games with a frame doesn't mean we have to follow that.  Brand has already proved that you can achieve great results doing this with his re-imagined EU ships - I say let Tom go wild with this and make something completely amazing instead of shackling him to what's been done before.

To be fair, your canopy looks really good, but it also looks really X-Wing, which I believe is what we're trying to get away from.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 03:00:43 pm by CountBuggula »

 

Offline swashmebuckle

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
TomShak, it might help make your decision easier if you first model the lower lines of the cockpit section.  Looking at both options with the flat bottom, I kind of like the one on the right, but that might just be because the lines of the ship aren't complete in that area, so you don't get the parallelism between the canopy lines and the bottom of the cockpit like you do on the Lambda.  Looking good!

 

Offline TomShak

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
Don't think it makes a huge amount of difference ...



I do want to try the standard "6 section" cockpit as well ...

 

Offline swashmebuckle

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
I meant the lines of the actual underside of the front section, where right now it is just a continuation of the flat bottom of the fuselage, unless you're planning on leaving it that way now.

 

Offline TomShak

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
Ah ... no I think it's probably going to stay more or less as is ;)

Here's a 6-section cockpit



You'll have to ignore the minor glitch on the bottom left of the cockpit ...

 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
And yes, I do advocate keeping the canopy framing. Why? The fighter was originally designed with framing, and it looks at home with it. It's an assault fighter, remember, and the frame, however light, keeps that well-armored canopy securely mounted to that well-armored hull. Unlike other Imperial fighers, the AG is a tough cookie.

As this is an EU ship that was never seen in the movies, we're got a lot of freedom designing this one - just because it appeared in some games with a frame doesn't mean we have to follow that.  Brand has already proved that you can achieve great results doing this with his re-imagined EU ships - I say let Tom go wild with this and make something completely amazing instead of shackling him to what's been done before.

To be fair, your canopy looks really good, but it also looks really X-Wing, which I believe is what we're trying to get away from.


I personally never thought the AG looked like an X-Wing. Rather, it was its own affair, and there is purpose in its lines. As far as design style goes, can you honestly say that the frameless canopy fits - as is - on the Gunboat? Look at every other Imperial fighter, in fact most every fighter from the original films, and find one without any canopy framing. Furthermore, note that the X-Wing does not have a canopy built directly into the hull - the canopy can be called "stepped" or otherwise extending from the fuselage. The AG's canopy barely does this at all. Artistically, it fits.

Design-wise, I really think the single-piece canopy makes the fighter look like a toy. It makes its presence weaker and less intimidating. It would also make, realistically, a rather weak point on an otherwise very tough fighter. Ultimately, neither you or I have control over the design decision, of course, but I would still like to lend support to the design I feel fits best in the SW universe. I'll add that, if the AG ever started to look like an X-Wing, it was in the later TG games where higher-poly in-game models started to replace the cutscene and tech room animations. WXA is a good example of this:



...Which you should note, I was never once suggesting reverting to the later, more X-Wing-ish design as seen in XWA.

And Tom, you Sir, are awesome.

:D :yes:
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 

Offline CountBuggula

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
Hmm...I dunno.  To me the curved, single pane to me looks sleek and expensive (sports car!).  True, there's no other Imperial fighters that have that kind of canopy, but this has much more roots with the Lambda shuttle than TIE fighters.

 

Offline swashmebuckle

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
Ah, fair enough.  I was under the impression from before in the thread that you were thinking about breaking up the fuselage a bit so that the underside wasn't totally flat, as in tilting the cockpit section downward a la the Lambda.  My mistake; carry on :)

 

Offline Black Wolf

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
6 panel cockpit looks awesome - I was skeptical with three, but six is good. :yes:
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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
My two cents on a couple of things.  Take it for what you will, Tom.  As you are the designer.

Let me start buy saying that I like the looks of it.  Although I was never a fan of the AG myself (a-wing guy personally).

I like the six piece myself.  Both aesthetically and practically.  I agree with the concept that it is a fighter and needs to afford some protection to it's pilot.  The early fighters in cannon did not do this.  But the later ones do (EU ones I mean).  Lucas designed the fighters after WWII concepts.  He stole a lot from Japanese culture and history for the film.  The imperial fighters were all offensive.  Deadly fire power.  Agile.  Insanely fast.  Basically the Japanese fighters at the start of the war.  Later in the War the Japanese saw the need to change this.  Unfortunately too late for them.  So there is the parallel.

Second thing is that I have to agree with newman on the size of the pods.  Where are you going to put all the missiles it is supposed to be loaded out with?  One possible suggestion (taking reference to Brand's Z-95 and E-Wing, in that there is no on reference for this so you could make it your own completely and end up with something awesome) is that you could move the engine to the main fuselage and dedicate the pods entirely to ordnance.  Putting eight warheads in each pod.  Four up front.  Blast shield between them and four in back that could be brought up after those are fired.  Granted we don't need to see a game mechanic for it.  Just an explanation.

I also like the both sets of gun pods that we have seen earlier (the drawing and the computer done model that someone outside this project did).  I liked the full gun pods better than the ones built into the wings myself.  But I do like seeing them either way.  :)

Thanks for doing this craft.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 06:26:03 pm by WOLF_Angel »

 

Offline TomShak

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
So, final option ... the bubble canopy ... which I think works better than the smaller "CountBuggula Cockpit".



Still not decided between this style and the 6-panel cockpit ...



Cast your votes now!!!

 

Offline brandx0

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
I'd like the bubble canopy either as is, or broken up into 3 segments, I wasn't a fan of 6 though
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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
Personalely I prefer the 6-panel cockpit.
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Offline Angelus

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
Good work right there, like the model but i don't like the bubble canopy, 3 or 6 is fine though.
And please, in the name of Padme, change the missile launchers a bit.  They are way to thin.

 

Offline CountBuggula

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Re: Resurrecting the Assault Gunboat
Hmm.  Still more of a fan of the previous single panel.  And it's got my name on it now!  Woot!