[Dilmah G]

Not sure if this was announced in some depth earlier,

BARACK Obama intends to withdraw all 39,000 remaining US troops from Iraq by the end of this year.

The US President's decision, announced today, follows a failure to reach agreement with Iraq's government about leaving several thousand American soldiers behind after this year's intended withdrawal deadline to continue special operations and training.

“Over the next two months, our troops in Iraq - tens of thousands of them - will pack up their gear and board convoys for the journey home,” Mr Obama said at the White House today.

The US withdrawal will bring to a close US involvement in a war that has lasted almost nine years, at a cost of $US1 trillion and the lives of 4,400 American soldiers.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/obama-announces-iraq-troop-pullout-by-the-end-of-2011/story-e6frg6so-1226173695959

Part of me started to rejoice before I remembered the implications here. Read later in the article and elsewhere that Iran may fill the gap - does anyone know if this is a valid fear?

[Unknown Target]

Not sure how I feel about this coinciding with the war drums for Iran and the upcoming presidential election. For the longest time they wanted to keep them there; and the status of our mercenaries are still unknown; I couldn't tell whether or not they will be paid to maintain a USA foothold in the area, which at one point was a major part of the plan for Iraq during Obama's first few years.

[NGTM-1R]

and the status of our mercenaries are still unknown;

You're going to have to elaborate on this or sound like a paranoid delusional.

[Unknown Target]

Well colloquially they're known as "private military contractors" (or companies). An example being Blackwater ("Xe Services, LLC." now).

[NGTM-1R]

Yes.

It's the idea that they're "ours" somehow that makes you look paranoid, however.

[Turambar]

Yes.

It's the idea that they're "ours" somehow that makes you look paranoid, however.

The US is paying the bill, wouldn't that make them "ours" as shameful and disgusting as that situation is

[NGTM-1R]

The US is paying the bill, wouldn't that make them "ours" as shameful and disgusting as that situation is

That's like saying Wall Street is ours.

More seriously, acting like a Blackwater is in any way under the control of the US government is farcical for the simple reason that things under the control of the government are held to much higher standards. At the time, when things started, they were a necessary stopgag because there was no local equivalent to provide hired security for people that needed it. I sincerely doubt that Iraq is lacking in home-grown private security outfits these days, though they may not be quite as...legitimate as Blackwater/Xe is. (And isn't that a fun thought?)

[Mars]

The US is paying the bill, wouldn't that make them "ours" as shameful and disgusting as that situation is

That's like saying Wall Street is ours.

More seriously, acting like a Blackwater is in any way under the control of the US government is farcical for the simple reason that things under the control of the government are held to much higher standards. At the time, when things started, they were a necessary stopgag because there was no local equivalent to provide hired security for people that needed it. I sincerely doubt that Iraq is lacking in home-grown private security outfits these days, though they may not be quite as...legitimate as Blackwater/Xe is. (And isn't that a fun thought?)

The person who hires the mercenary is sort of expected to call them 'my mercenaries' aren't they? And theoretically speaking (although that's not how it works out) the US government isn't supposed to by paying Wallstreet.

[Klaustrophobia]

things under the control of the government are held to much higher standards.

you must be joking.

[NGTM-1R]

The person who hires the mercenary is sort of expected to call them 'my mercenaries' aren't they?

That assumes there are still major US contracts out to Xe/Blackwater in Iraq, which I honestly don't know is true (and sort of doubt).

Also it's less the hiring party and more to whom they're providing services. If the US has pulled out, they're not "ours" anymore even if we were paying for them.

you must be joking.

With guns? The United States military. The FBI. Let me show you them.

[Dilmah G]

I thought the US Gov't employed something like 200,000 contractors in the Middle East at some point? Can't cite source but I believe this was a few years ago, has the PMC presence really died down? I think those contracts may have been transferred to the Iraqi government, however.

[Unknown Target]

Plus we're still keeping troops in Afghanistan, aren't we?

On the subject of Iraq, I know a key point of contention was that the US wanted all it's troops that were staying to be immune from trial in Iraqi courts.

It just seems to me that while this move was eventual due to the US's already unstable resource supply, and the seemingly ever-growing sappage of corruption, that this Iraq withdrawel feels of political as well.

[NGTM-1R]

I thought the US Gov't employed something like 200,000 contractors in the Middle East at some point?

Yeah, but that number included a huge variety of noncombat roles in construction and supply from what I understood of how they arrived at it. I doubt US contracts for combat personnel ever went over ten thousand.

You have to understand, nobody ever particularly liked or wanted Blackwater and its ilk to be running around with guns on the streets of Baghdad. They simply didn't have alternatives.

[BrotherBryon]

Um unless I'm mistaken we still have a military base in Kuwait not that far from the Iraq border so It's not like we wouldn't have troops in the area should the need arise. With the withdrawal of troops from Iraq I'm sure the Kuwaitis will want us to beef up our presence there. In all seriousness though do we really want to get involved in any more Middle Eastern squabbling. I mean we've fought 3 wars in the region just in my lifetime with 2 of them being long drawn out insurgency/guerrilla wars and what has it gained us exactly?

[MetalMilitia]

Well, I think the US did more harm than good to Iraq.. It's about time for the US to leave, it should have done so when they failed to found the alleged WMD.. 

[NGTM-1R]

Well, I think the US did more harm than good to Iraq.. It's about time for the US to leave, it should have done so when they failed to found the alleged WMD..

Yes, leave the country without a functional government or society.

You break it, you buy it.

[Unknown Target]

Perhaps whatever government that they create while we are still there will not be the best government for the area? Perhaps they would form a better government in time if we left them alone to form it, instead of pushing them along paths that the US deems as "good for them"?

Just playing devil's advocate here.

[NGTM-1R]

instead of pushing them along paths that the US deems as "good for them"?

You may not have noticed, but very little of this has actually happened, and that is one of the reasons we've left Iraq completely at this point in time. Anyone who's ever watched Karzai in Afghanistan would also not hold this notion.

In fact the situation would probably have resolved more quickly and with less loss of life had the United States functioned as an occupying power in such a fashion. (And then everything would have collapsed when we left.)

[MetalMilitia]

Do Iraq has a functional government and society now??? I doubt it.. What the US did is create more Muslim radicals and haters because of their actions and because of GW Bush "Crusade".. Now we left them to their misery,, oh, let't not forget that we left them to Iran. We chewed the lump "Iraq" for them, Iran just have to swallow now.. I just feel sorry for the poor Iraqi people due to the chaos we did to them
US troops lives are wasted on a "False crusade, personal presidential ambitions"

[NGTM-1R]

A delightfully inept posting. Let's break it down.

Iraq has had very minimal US presence for at least six months now. The Iraqi government's ability to exercise and control its monoply on the use of violence far exceeds that of a number of countries in the Western Hemisphere. Mexico comes to mind.

People are getting fed, housed, and clothed. Famine and disease are controlled or nonexistent.

No enemies foreign or domestic are able to pose a realistic challenge to governmental power.

Yes, the Iraqi government is functional. I daresay it's more functional than that of most of Central America.

On the topic of the Iraqis being pushed along lines we regard as good, step back for a moment and think of why this thread exists. The government of Iraq and the government of the United States are unable to come to mutually acceptable terms regarding the basing of US troops in Iraq. If the Iraqi government were wholly or even mostly a US creation, would such a thing even be possible? Would such negotiations even be necessary, much less break down?