[Mikes]

Because nobody wants to push the big red button with MAD written on it.

Actually... a not unsignificant portion of the electorate might want to do just that.

The growing amount of radical Christians in the US who wouldn't really mind or even want some kind of "Apocalypse" to herald the 2nd coming of Christ is getting somewhat worrying...

MAD only works as long as people aren't...

Oh please. Do you really believe that?

Believe? No. Know? Yes.
Something to worry about in the shortterm? Nah not yet. In the longterm? A worrying trend.

The amount of nutcase preachers and the sheer number of their followers is really getting somewhat worrying.

So is the number of politicians who hold strong religious (if not quite as extremist as the complete basket cases) belief.
So is the idiotic vicious "fight" of "Creatonism" vs. "Darwinism".
So is the attitude of extremist Islamist and extremist Christians towards each other... giving this euphemistically labeled "war on terror" an uncomfortably active religious "fuel source".

Heck... considering couple of years ago you had a frigging president who communed directly with god and by his own words based his decisions on divine advice should really be worrying enough all by itself.


Short of (granted, right now quite unlikely) actual nuclear apocalypse what people should really worry about is an evolving American Theocracy.

[redsniper]

Also, I can't believe no one has made this joke yet: Is Iraq pregnant? The pull-out method doesn't work. 

****

Tsk tsk, Slowttuta.

[jr2]

Because nobody wants to push the big red button with MAD written on it.

Actually... a not unsignificant portion of the electorate might want to do just that.

The growing amount of radical Christians in the US who wouldn't really mind or even want some kind of "Apocalypse" to herald the 2nd coming of Christ is getting somewhat worrying...

MAD only works as long as people aren't...

Oh please. Do you really believe that?

Believe? No. Know? Yes.
Something to worry about in the shortterm? Nah not yet. In the longterm? A worrying trend.

The amount of nutcase preachers and the sheer number of their followers is really getting somewhat worrying.

So is the number of politicians who hold strong religious (if not quite as extremist as the complete basket cases) belief.
So is the idiotic vicious "fight" of "Creatonism" vs. "Darwinism".
So is the attitude of extremist Islamist and extremist Christians towards each other... giving this euphemistically labeled "war on terror" an uncomfortably active religious "fuel source".

Heck... considering couple of years ago you had a frigging president who communed directly with god and by his own words based his decisions on divine advice should really be worrying enough all by itself.


Short of (granted, right now quite unlikely) actual nuclear apocalypse what people should really worry about is an evolving American Theocracy.

What exactly is your issue with Christianity?  Based on your statement that we'd love nothing better than to unleash an apocalypse to get Christ to appear again... I'd say you don't know enough about us to make any sort of pronouncement.  Either that, or you've only been exposed to some weird cult claiming the title of Christian.

Let me give a brief over-view (not a defense or convincing argument, mind you, an overview) of Christian beliefs as it relates to your fear of global holocaust:

Christ's second coming doesn't start an apocalypse.  All that happens is the church (that is, people who believe and trust in Christ to rescue them from their corruption and sin) gets taken from the world.

So, those that don't believe will have the world all to themselves... although, with something as blatantly obvious as people all over the globe disappearing into thin air, I'm sure there will be a few converts right away.

The world will set up a unified government under one leader, whom Christians refer to as the Anti-Christ (no, there is no excuse for freaking out about this leader or that leader today being the anti-christ; the anti-christ will be plain as day -- if you don't have his mark on your forehead or right hand, no buying or selling for you, and if you don't worship him, he'll take off your head.)  The Anti-Christ will make a 7-year peace treaty with the nation of Israel (they do not get raptured with the believers, as they do not trust Christ as their Savior, they think He was just a good teacher / prophet).

There will be a war 3.5 years into the treaty, as the Anti-Christ will break the treaty and attack Israel.  More detail on how that goes, etc, etc, but to get to what you mentioned earlier;

7 years after the Anti-Christ takes over and makes his treaty with Israel, God (Jesus, Holy Spirit, 3-in-1 yes I know that's confusing) returns to judge the Earth (which has been show numerous times throughout the 7-year period that God is REAL and is punishing the Earth for its refusal to acknowledge Him as God) to bring judgement.  This will be the Apocalypse (well, the punishments during the 7-year period come close but this is the final Game Over part).  Basically, that is when God kills those who still have refused to surrender to Him and insist on rebelling.

Now, what does that have to do with any of God's followers launching some sort of WMD?!?  The task of God's followers at this current time is to be witnessing to people about God's plan to save them.  Why do they need to be saved?  Well, God cannot tolerate sin.  Unfortunately, man is by nature sinful, because our ancestors Adam and Eve decided to do things their own way and break God's rules.  Since God still loves man, He chose to buy them back by paying the price for their sin (which is death) Himself.  He sent His Son (second person in the Trinity, still fully God) to be born as a human, live a perfect human life, and then die for our sin, taking it on Himself so that we could go free, if we choose to accept that gift and submit to His ways, acknowledging that He is the one who deserves to be Lord of our lives.

Needless to say, this conflicts with the theory of Evolution^TM, which is another topic.  However, I do believe from what I have posted, you can see that launching Weapons to produce mass casualties should not be on any true follower of Christ's to-do list.  No?   

[Bobboau]

except that is "what Jesus would do"^TM.

"God kills those who still have refused to surrender to Him"

[Mars]

You can pull peace love and grace out of the New Testament. . .

if you really squint.

[karajorma]

However, I do believe from what I have posted, you can see that launching Weapons to produce mass casualties should not be on any true follower of Christ's to-do list.  No?   

You're making the mistake of assuming that self-proclaimed Christians actually know the bible. Quite a few of them do not. That whole thing about the Rapture being deferred to earlier this week wouldn't have happened if they did.

[NGTM-1R]

You're making the mistake of assuming that self-proclaimed Christians actually know the bible. Quite a few of them do not. That whole thing about the Rapture being deferred to earlier this week wouldn't have happened if they did.

You're making the mistake of treating them like a significant faction of the religion, much as Mika does. Between the RCC, the Lutherans, the Orthodox Catholics, and most mainstream Baptist congregations there is a more than comfortable majority who aren't on board with Mika's fears.

And the substance of the Rapture Ready crowd makes them by nature an endangered species. Their beliefs or the beliefs they dabble in are such that simple contact with reality places those beliefs in danger. The closely-held desire for Biblical inerrancy means that only the Bible can be a valid source of knowledge, which not only undermines their own structuring (why should we believe the preacher, he's not the Bible!) but a simple glance around their daily lives puts it in grave danger.  The Bible didn't make their televisions, radios, or phones possible.

They pose no threat because they are unable to pose a threat. Simple day-to-day life requires that they willfully ignore vast numbers of contradictions. Put the blinders on and see how far one gets in life. We imagine it as the province of the retired because only they could even function like this.

[karajorma]

You're making the mistake of treating them like a significant faction of the religion, much as Mika does.

No, you're making the mistake of assuming that numbers matter. These people can be dangerous in very small numbers. Look at pretty much any doomsday cult if you need proof of that.

[NGTM-1R]

No, you're making the mistake of assuming that numbers matter. These people can be dangerous in very small numbers. Look at pretty much any doomsday cult if you need proof of that.

Doomsday cults are dangerous to themselves. Seriously, find me a doomsday cult that actually had a wide-ranging effect amongst society.

Find me one that even managed to carry out the doomsday part with more than fifty people.

[Nuke]

one of the big issues i have with doomsday cults is their inability to deliver. come on! do some damage already!

also my cult is accepting resumes/donations/warheads.

[karajorma]

Doomsday cults are dangerous to themselves. Seriously, find me a doomsday cult that actually had a wide-ranging effect amongst society.

Find me one that even managed to carry out the doomsday part with more than fifty people.

You could make much the same argument about terrorism pre 9/11. It might not be a great argument, but people have made it before. Now it's unlikely anyone would.

It only takes one group getting successful.

[Bobboau]

it only takes one doomsday cult stealth candidate to get into office with the goal of starting a nuclear war.

[Woolie Wool]

or the nazis.

Dunno - Russia might have been them down eventually - but thank god for those flanking manouvres.

Even if they didn't, Hitler was an idiot who had no idea how to create a line of succession, and was by the end of the war drugging himself to death, so without the US it's basically a race to see whether the Soviets can take Germany before Hitler croaks and Germany dissolves into civil war.

[Woolie Wool]

However, I do believe from what I have posted, you can see that launching Weapons to produce mass casualties should not be on any true follower of Christ's to-do list.  No?   

You're making the mistake of assuming that self-proclaimed Christians actually know the bible. Quite a few of them do not. That whole thing about the Rapture being deferred to earlier this week wouldn't have happened if they did.

Also the premillennial dispensationalist theology with the rapture and tribulation is only popular among evangelicals, most other groups have different views.

[karajorma]

The problem with jr2's argument is that he's simply making a rather longwinded "No true Scotsman" argument where he's saying that only true Christians believe in his interpretation of Revelations. I pointed out that the Rapture nonsense is a very recent example that quite a few people managed to believe in a rather different interpretation. It is by no means the only example of Christian denominations with beliefs that aren't in the bible or which are due to giving some part of the bible undue relevance.

[General Battuta]

Every HLP thread inevitably turns into a discussion of religion

[karajorma]

Only cause they usually go through American politics first. If you lot could figure out how to have the secular government your founding fathers actually wanted, the rest of us wouldn't have to deal with this nonsense.

[MP-Ryan]

Every HLP thread inevitably turns into a discussion of religion

Only cause they usually go through American politics first. If you lot could figure out how to have the secular government your founding fathers actually wanted, the rest of us wouldn't have to deal with this nonsense.

...and the Karatutta Postulation is born.

[Sushi]

Doomsday cults are dangerous to themselves. Seriously, find me a doomsday cult that actually had a wide-ranging effect amongst society.

Find me one that even managed to carry out the doomsday part with more than fifty people.

You could make much the same argument about terrorism pre 9/11. It might not be a great argument, but people have made it before. Now it's unlikely anyone would.

It only takes one group getting successful.

So the correct response is what, exactly?

I can tell you this, the way the US responded to 9/11 is NOT the correct response. It's not the right response for doomsday cults either. "It only takes one" scaremongering is a very bad approach, especially when lawmakers get their hands on it.

[karajorma]

The correct response is the same as it should be to terrorism. Eternal vigilance for it but a measured response to it. NGTM-1R's comment is too far in the opposite direction. "No Doomsday cult has ever done much damage so none ever will." That's an incredibly bad way to look at the danger they pose. Especially considering how close certain Doomsday cults have got to death tolls in the same region as 9/11.

...and the Karatutta Postulation is born.

Maybe we should make this into our very own Godwin.