Author Topic: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)  (Read 19860 times)

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Online ShivanSpS

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
OK, im a bit busy in the late days(new job) so i dindt much time to keep investigating this, but i may share my findings so far:

1) Ive abandoned the idea of making the game runs directly on OpenGL ES api, all existing wrappers are not up to the task, and rewriting the game to use OpenGL ES is not something i can do.
BUT, im searching other possibilities, and talking with the Chainfire3D dev, evaluating the odds of a OpenGL plugin for Chainfire3d, seems possible.

2) For the game itselft, it shouldt be much problem, as the Android NDK can compile native C/C++ code, and Android itselft can run compiled C/C++ apps from a terminal, ive already tested this with some of my own C apps.
The main problem should be doing the makefiles and ensure that everything compile fine, and that is not a quick task, but as the game compile already for Linux x86, i not expect any mayor source code change to be nesesary.
As for any other issue, the game needs to think that Android is just as any other Linux.

3) The launcher needs to be re-done, launcher has to be a full Android app. The Launcher should be the one capable of downloading all game data files to sdcard and to play the game, the launcher just needs to execute the game binary file.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 05:31:04 pm by ShivanSpS »

 
Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
Hi there,

as I would love to see Freespace2 running on Android (even with an acion-like dumbed-down version), I think I can contribute some pointers as I investigated some concepts without touching the code myself.

As the main problem here seems to be the OpenGL-compatibility issues, there seem to be several approaches to maybe reuse as much code as possible:
 - OpenGL-issues: have a look at JumpCore: https://bitbucket.org/runhello/jumpcore/wiki/Home
    It promises to abstract away the differences between OpenGL and OpenGL ES-versions
 - libgdx: a cross-platform game-development framework targeting windows, linux and android http://libgdx.badlogicgames.com/
 - as fs2_open for linux seems to be compiled against libsdl, pelya has ported libsdl to android: https://github.com/pelya/commandergenius and http://libsdl-android.sourceforge.net/
 - there also exists an official android-port of libsdl: http://hg.libsdl.org/SDL/file/ (look for android-project as a template and readme.android for instructions)

As for the Launcher: I could help with that, even with trying to port the Qt-YAL to android.

So let me know if any of this helps and if you need help with anything... :-)

 

Online ShivanSpS

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
yeah sdl has been ported and used by several apps.
Also ill like to mention that Raspberry PI will be avalible soon, using the damn SLOW ARM11 and a good OpenGL ES card, so i think its not longer about Android, its about ARM/MIPS and OpenGL ES devices, from that, to Android its just a small port.

So bad for OpenGL as new mobile gpu are fully supporting OpenCL(parallel processing) and Directx11(Windows 8 likely)...
About mobile gpu performance, most of the devices are more powerfull than gpus from 1999 when the game was released, but shader performance will be crap, that for sure. Except from new Mali mobile gpus who are awesome.

BTW, Jumpcore seems good.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 09:40:05 pm by ShivanSpS »

 

Online ShivanSpS

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
MMM im checking now and Windows 8 ARM seems to be causing havok in ARM gpus planning...



Those Malis are coming with full Directx support, and the new Tegra (Wayne), will be coming out with not only Directx, but OpenGL 4.0 support too... as well is PowerVR Series6.
So im optimistic about the future of FSO in mobile devices now, as well in Windows 8 ARM, as OpenGL ES support is not longer needed. I wonder if there is any chance of re-add Directx support for future Windows 8 ARM builds, as not all modern arm gpus will be supporting full OpenGL yet.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 03:16:19 am by ShivanSpS »

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
Fate of the Galaxy - Now Hiring!  Apply within | Diaspora | SCP Home | Collada Importer for PCS2
Karajorma's 'How to report bugs' | Mantis
#freespace | #scp-swc | #diaspora | #SCP | #hard-light on EsperNet

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
The major problem for most mobile devices is still getting decent input devices attached to them.  You can probably plug in a joystick and decent keyboard to a typical Android tablet, but you still need to find a way to prop it up and sit back.  I have no idea how you would do that with an iOS device.  When suggesting a new porting target for this game, that's the first question you have to answer.

However, it's entirely plausible that mobile-class hardware will get more exposure in laptop- and nettop-type devices.  For example, the Asus Transformer Prime is essentially a laptop with an ARM CPU running Android, regardless of whether the "screen" detaches to become a tablet.  Porting to that kind of device would make sense at least in theory.

The FitPC TrimSlice on my desk is also a viable target, running Linux but supporting OpenGL ES2 instead of full OpenGL.  It compares directly with the Raspberry Pi that is my main target: significantly better CPU, several times more RAM, allegedly weaker GPU, ten times the price.

 

Online ShivanSpS

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
Personally i have two tablets, a a Novo 7 Basic (JZ4770 MIPS/GC860 GPU) and a Novo 7 Aurora (AllWinner A10 / Quad core Mali-400). And im using both of them with this:



so input is not a problem, in SEVERAL cases, also ive been playing FPS games on my Aurora, like Shadow Gun and Modern Combat 3, while its not that confortable to play, its still playable, so i think touch playing fs2 ITS posible, keep in mind that we can also try using the accelerometer/G-Sensor for ship movement.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 08:55:10 pm by ShivanSpS »

 

Offline JGZinv

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
Think I've got an answer here...

http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/16/kainy-remote-gaming-app/

Not truly standalone, it's remote, but it's do-able.

...and Shivan - nice... been looking to get me a Ainol unit for dev purposes and generally fiddling.
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Offline The E

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
Quote
I wonder if there is any chance of re-add Directx support for future Windows 8 ARM builds, as not all modern arm gpus will be supporting full OpenGL yet.

 :banghead:

Maintaining an OpenGL ES and OpenGL 3 code path at the same time: No big deal.
Maintaining a DirectX and OpenGL code path at the same time: Bloody stupid. There's a reason why we've dropped DirectX years ago. Maintaining feature parity for both renderers is too much work.
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Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
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Offline Mikes

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
Think I've got an answer here...

http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/16/kainy-remote-gaming-app/

Not truly standalone, it's remote, but it's do-able.

...and Shivan - nice... been looking to get me a Ainol unit for dev purposes and generally fiddling.

Have you actually tried playing like that? Let's say that I was quite surprised as well as dismayed as my wishful thinking met reality while I was still on my "tablet craze".

It's bloody aggravating. The only benefit I can see is being able to sit on the couch... but you will still be yearning for proper controls every second you play. In addition to that you have to contend with input lag and video quality issues.
... and the moment you actually use a keyboard for your tablet it just becomes stupid as the whole Couch benefit goes away and its flat out inferior to the regular computer experience in every possible way.

These "streaming from PC" gaming solutions are a fancy way of producing results that are in every possible way worse than the original experience with little tangible benefit. You can't effectively use them outside of WLAN range, which means truly mobile gaming is still impossible, and they introduce a slew of new issues, most notably input lag and crappy controls (compared to the original input solutions). In general... once people got over the "Wow I can play this on my tablet COOOOLL!" effect... there is not a single actual reason left to actually play it on a tablet due to all the problems associated with the streaming solution and playing games on a tablet in general.

My advice: If you want Couch gaming... invest in a projector with low input lag and an USB extension cable for your Joystick/Keyboard or possibly a wireless Keyboard. Best of all worlds :)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 02:55:27 pm by Mikes »

 

Offline JGZinv

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
... ... ...

If you don't like it don't use it.

Some people like to try new things even if they aren't the established or quote un quote "best" way.


...and no "I' don't plan to play like that, but I beleive it'd be entirely possible to make a somewhat fun space sim experience
on a android device. As such I posted that so the people here wanting to try it could take a shot at it...
True power comes not from strength, but from the soul and imagination.
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Offline Mikes

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
... ... ...

If you don't like it don't use it.

Some people like to try new things even if they aren't the established or quote un quote "best" way.


...and no "I' don't plan to play like that, but I beleive it'd be entirely possible to make a somewhat fun space sim experience
on a android device. As such I posted that so the people here wanting to try it could take a shot at it...

Just sharing my experience with actually trying it. Sorry if it sounded too harsh. :)

In general there s a lot of hype about Android (and IOS)... but sadly, the solutions offered are quite often extremely lacking or even not practical at all.

Tablets are a great way for media consumption and especially for browsing the web... but... sadly...

...  most of my other hands on Android experiences went like this: "Oh cool you can do *this* on Android too! Let's try it...   yeah I guess it runs, sort of... gosh this sucks, why would anyone actually want to do *this* on a tablet like *that*?" lol.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 03:03:08 pm by Mikes »

 

Offline jr2

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
Bluetooth roll-up keyboard + Bluetooth portable mouse = Profit?

 

Offline Mikes

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
Bluetooth roll-up keyboard + Bluetooth portable mouse = Profit?

Well, in my eyes the biggest benefit of a tablet is that you can use it on the couch. With a keyboard, BT mouse and its tiny screen that is not really conveniently possible however, so it would lose it's biggest benefit.


And were you talking about Kainy?

In that case, instead of sitting in front of your PC with its 22"-24" monitor, you would stream the game from your PC to your tablet over WLAN, so you could sit in front of a tiny 7"-10" tablet screen, while dealing with input lag and video streaming issues?

Yeah.... great idea. :p To each their own LOL.



And as said before, if it's about "quality" couch based entertainment... you can always take a step forward and buy a projector... instead of making ten leaps back by trying to awkwardly stream PC games to a tablet.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 07:08:21 pm by Mikes »

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
Well, streaming from PC to tablet does allow you to keep gaming while you're doing something like taking a dump, if that's what you desire. :p

 

Offline Molaris

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
would a simple model viewer be possible? I think that'd be awesome just to have the model + textures available on my Samsung.
"Hey, Mike, you think you can toss me my calculations? Thanks! Ah, here it is: "Breach Hull - All Die." Even had it underlined!" -Crow T. Robot-

 

Offline JGZinv

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
True power comes not from strength, but from the soul and imagination.
Max to PCS2 to FS2 SCP Guide
The FringeSpace Conversion Mod

 

Offline Molaris

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek2:

would you need to modify the texture files as well?
"Hey, Mike, you think you can toss me my calculations? Thanks! Ah, here it is: "Breach Hull - All Die." Even had it underlined!" -Crow T. Robot-

 

Offline JGZinv

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
I don't know, there's a handful of model viewers on there. Just look around a bit.
True power comes not from strength, but from the soul and imagination.
Max to PCS2 to FS2 SCP Guide
The FringeSpace Conversion Mod

 

Offline FSW

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Re: FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)
Was changing the thread title really necessary?