[Buckshee Rounds]

Yeah, that's true right enough. The odd one out is the Terran half of the GTVA. It's all guesswork anyway, I don't want to make a concerted effort to decode the fiction for risk of ruining the story (as if that can even happen).

One thing I don't think has ever really been touched on is the existence and nature of the alternate universe the 14th visited in BP1. The Vishnans were very keen on not seeing the last bastion of humanity - the Sanctuary - annihilated, despite the fact that the human race still exists in 'our' universe. Why was it so important to get those last humans home safely? Why did the Shivans want them destroyed? Is the existence of Ubuntu somehow relevant for the Vishnans? I wonder what the real difference between the two universes is, asides from the absence of Terrans and Vasudans. The alternate universe never had ETAK, no deliberate communication from humans to Shivans. That stands out to me.

[CT27]

According to the fiction, Vasudan members of the security council were never consulted before the invasion of Sol and the council may have known about Byrne's project before the 14th went in. The GTVA *thinks* that this project poses a threat to them, which would justify an invasion, but it may not necessarily pose a threat to the human race, at least not yet. If it did they would have charged in with their full armada to put a stop to it.

Would it have been any better had the planned invasion to Sol been revealed to the Vasudan SC members?  As the old saying goes:  "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission."

[-Norbert-]

One thing I don't think has ever really been touched on is the existence and nature of the alternate universe the 14th visited in BP1. The Vishnans were very keen on not seeing the last bastion of humanity - the Sanctuary - annihilated, despite the fact that the human race still exists in 'our' universe. Why was it so important to get those last humans home safely? Why did the Shivans want them destroyed? Is the existence of Ubuntu somehow relevant for the Vishnans? I wonder what the real difference between the two universes is, asides from the absence of Terrans and Vasudans. The alternate universe never had ETAK, no deliberate communication from humans to Shivans. That stands out to me.

I don't think the Vishnans cared for the Sanctuary one bit, or they'd have helped them before. I think the Vishnans wanted to make sure the 14th got back to their own reality, but changed in a way that screwed over the initial invasion. Since they let the Sancutary tag along, I highly doubt the Vishnans given reason of restoring the balance between the universes (for that the 14th would have had to return without the Sanctuary).

I also think the Vishnans are responsible for the Sanctuary being found by the Shivans:
First the 14th corsses to the other universe, then the Duke goes nuts and in their madness goes directly toward the Sanctuary. Then the Duke breaks down exactly where and when a scout wing of the big S happens to patrol the area. And just a moment before the GTVAs emisaries arrive at the Sanctuary, she happens to be discovered and attacked by the Shivans, enabling said emisaries to save the Sanctuary just in time.
That must have been the miltiverses biggest chain of extremely unlikely coincidences ever, or someone or something orchestrated the whole thing.
After that the Vishnans seem to sink into the background again, untill the moment where secret manipulations don't cut it anymore and they are finally forced to openly show their hand in order to save their unknowing pawns from the Shivans.

While I was always sceptical about the Vishnans, I never actually disliked them... untill I fnished the above piece of text...

[FireSpawn]

Sounds like the "mysterious being/force" truly responsible for the time tunnels in Chrono Trigger has set sail for the stars.

[NGTM-1R]

I've always thought the Sanctuary was a necessary part of disrupting the 14th.  Simply seeing Earth destroyed would not be enough necessarily and could even act to harden their resolve by demonstrating the dangers of the Shivans and the necessity of bringing Earth and its industrial capacity under GTVA control. Saving the Sanctuary, however, will put them in a very different frame of mind.

Similarly, the miscommunication at the node where the junior admiral does the stupid thing (in a very un-admiral-like move) and the Renjian starts shooting rather than surrendering to the assembled task force, thereby creating the preconditions for the war, also left me highly suspicious.

[Alex Heartnet]

The GTVA wants war because it is an excellent way of keeping their population distracted from what's going on at home.  There could be a major event going on within the terran half of GTVA space and the general public won't know about it because their attention is drawn towards Sol instead.

Under that line of thinking, even the destruction of a Destroyer would not turn public opinion against the war.  The GTVA would just cover up the fact that it happened and send in a replacement.

[qwadtep]

Similarly, the miscommunication at the node where the junior admiral does the stupid thing (in a very un-admiral-like move) and the Renjian starts shooting rather than surrendering to the assembled task force, thereby creating the preconditions for the war, also left me highly suspicious.

The former is a Shivaphobic even by GTVA standards who had just escaped from a systemwide battle between Shivan and alien juggernauts and superjuggernauts, suddenly handed control of a battered fleet and ordered to proceed as planned, and thus panicked and fell back on his training to follow the timetable, declaring the already-overdue war. The latter believed the GTVA ships to have weapons comparable to his own and thus ordered an immediate engagement thinking he could hold them off until 3FJ reinforcements could arrive.

Extreme times, extreme circumstances.

[Crybertrance]

Since we are talking about the UEF and the Shivans, anyone notice that secret message on the Narayana?

Try looking at the Narayana in FRED (read: clipping through the model). You'll find a message regardin shivans and such + one admiral of the GTVA or something.

[-Norbert-]

I've always thought the Sanctuary was a necessary part of disrupting the 14th.  Simply seeing Earth destroyed would not be enough necessarily and could even act to harden their resolve by demonstrating the dangers of the Shivans and the necessity of bringing Earth and its industrial capacity under GTVA control. Saving the Sanctuary, however, will put them in a very different frame of mind.

That's exactly what I was getting at. For me it seemed as if the Vishnans didn't care for the Sanctuary as a ship full of the last survivors of a species. For them it seemed to be a tool, or a figure on the board if you will, to manipulate the 14th BG into becoming what they wanted them to be.

[Colonol Dekker]

Since we are talking about the UEF and the Shivans, anyone notice that secret message on the Narayana?

I don't have FRED at work.

Inbox meh plox.

[MatthTheGeek]

I think I got it all. Am still unsure about in which order those are supposed to be read.

Seems to be written from the GTVA point of view. Might be an extract from a tech entry or a fiction viewer of WiH2.

[redsniper]

Holy ****.




Also, l like how Batman is classic literature in the 2300s.

[qwadtep]

I think 2 probably follows 3, explaining why the Shivans limit their own tech.

[FireSpawn]

You guys are sly. Remind me never to play Defcon (or any rts) with you without teams being locked .

[Jellyfish]

That's the strangest easter egg ever. It could've made more sense if it was written, say, in the Atreus' fighterbay.

[MatthTheGeek]

Impossible. Raynor is tileraped, as is all the stratcomm's Tev fleet pack. Can't hide something in the UVMap with tileraped ships.

[Buckshee Rounds]

Was that text in the original Nara or the retexture?

[MatthTheGeek]

Retexture of course. For the same tilerape-related reason as above.

[Aesaar]

Impossible. Raynor is tileraped, as is all the stratcomm's Tev fleet pack. Can't hide something in the UVMap with tileraped ships.

After my recent effort completely redesigning the Diomedes (which is only missing LODs and debris ATM.  All Uvmapped and textured), I enjoyed it so much I'm now strongly considering HTL-ing the rest of the Stratcomm fleet (well, the ships used in BP.  no redesign, just higher poly models and UVmapped textures).  Promises might not be worth much, but I am looking at doing it after exams.  I'm also not sure about the policy on HTLing someone else's ships.  Don't want to step on any toes.

[General Battuta]

Please do it, I'm confident the original modeler would be flattered. The Raynor itself is already a high-poly version of an earlier iteration.