[Scourge of Ages]

The concensues among the X-com lovers group I know is that it's "not really X-Com" and it's too "stremlines and simplified".
Most people I know are somewhat dissapointed. They expected more.

Ummmm.... have you read this thread? Among this group of X-COM lovers, this does not seem to be the case at all.

[TrashMan]

The concensues among the X-com lovers group I know is that it's "not really X-Com" and it's too "stremlines and simplified".
Most people I know are somewhat dissapointed. They expected more.

Ummmm.... have you read this thread? Among this group of X-COM lovers, this does not seem to be the case at all.

I wasn't talking about this group.
This is a comparatively small group compared to some of the others I know.

[Polpolion]

Yeah, they did either over simplify or blatantly remove a lot of the parts that I really liked from the original, but I still think it's a good game and a worthy re-imagining. I must admit I kind of regret paying $60 for it, though, since I haven't gotten more than a few hours of gameplay out of it so far because it keeps breaking some way or another.

[General Battuta]

Hahaha man I had a narratively perfect final mission.

Spoiler:

Elite badass squads fights it way about halfway down the length of the temple ship. We're taking some serious attrition but heavy medkit use by the supports keeps things ticking. Apollo has 1 medkit left and Voodoo has 2. We've only got one psychic, Dozer, so we're trying to keep him alive at all costs.

Then a gang of Muton Elites jumps us from a bad angle. Voodoo's mortally wounded and needs a medkit to stabilize her. Dozer's taken a mauling - down to 5 HP.

But I've only got one medkit left.

I agonized over it for two or three minutes before using the medkit on Dozer and leaving Voodoo to die.  She deserved better.

When we got to the temple ship bridge, only three of us were left standing - Apollo, Dozer, and DOA. Apollo breached first and promptly got mind controlled. Dozer and DOA ran but Apollo had higher move speed and cornered Dozer. DOA had a shot, should've taken it - didn't. Dozer had a shot too - didn't take it. Suppressed instead.

Apollo missed his shot, the mind control broke, and we killed the Ethereals. Dozer finished the mission with 1 HP, so leaving Voodoo to die was worth it.

[NGTM-1R]

I wasn't talking about this group.
This is a comparatively small group compared to some of the others I know.

Okay, let's talk about other groups. Not a single other group I'm part of agrees with you.

[TrashMan]

I wasn't talking about this group.
This is a comparatively small group compared to some of the others I know.

Okay, let's talk about other groups. Not a single other group I'm part of agrees with you.

Oh boy....

I should have seen this coming. Now you're gonna start a mini war with me because I disagree wiht oyu on something again, aren't you?


Ok, here's some quotes from other people:

The public IS still able to enjoy complexity.

But, simple as that, a dumber game gets both the gamers who want complexity, because there aren't any complex competitors, and the gamers who just want 5 minutes of eye candy between lunch break and lunch.

Lowest common denominator. It sells. It especially sells to people who can't find the lowest common denominator of the game's price and the IQ required to complete it.

Hello all:

I have purchaed and already finished X-Com: Enemy Unknown. Finishing the game left me extremely disappointed. Seeing the high game rating (8/10 average) all over gaming sites left me thinking that there is something wrong with me. I wouldn't give the game more than 6 or 7 out of 10- even if I try to approach game from the point of view of someone who never played original X-COm series ( I finished all 3).

To say that X-Com: E.U. is "dumbed down" would be an understatement. Despite updated graphics (which are not much of an improvement over Silent Storm, by the way), the whole game feels like a...board game! You move unit certain number of squares, roll the dice, repeat. Gone are the elements that made the original game so great:

1) Physics system. Yes, this 2012 game has a much worse physics system that a 20 year old game ! Your bullets do not actually interact with environment. Whether you hit the target or not is basically decided by a random number generator, not whether the bullet actually connects! Environmental damage is all pre-determined and does not have any effect on the game other that occasionally remove a cover from unit. You can only hit one unit at a time (unless you fire a rocket or throw grenade). Your bullet spray can never hit a random target- only the one you selected. In conclusion- fighting is basically "rolling dice" and watching visual representation on screen! Often this leads to "disconnect with reality" when random number generator decides that apparently a wall is not there and Alien shots and your grenades pass through walls without actually penetrating them.

2) AI is basically absent. Aliens sit around and wait for player to find them. Then they get "activated", a little cutscene is played EVERY TIME of the aliens pounding their chests, roaring or otherwise acting annoyed.

3) Equipment management is GONE. You cant pick thing up, pass them along, modify your loadout during mission. You have infinite ammo.

4) The whole tactical system is oversimplified to basically a "rock-paper-scissors" type of game. You cant use different types or shots (aimed, snap, auto), cannot sprint, walk, crawl, kneel. Cannot move a certain number of time units. Player can basically move TWICE during the turn. If by accident player moves one square- it will count as one move even if your moving range is 10 squares. Soldier attitude cannot be set to cautious, normal or hostile. Looking direction of units cannot be set... I could go on...

5) Base management and alien craft interception are oversimplified to the point of becoming a boring chore.

Overall, playing this game made me join this community. I'm now looking forward to Xenonauts coming out.

i'm with gonzo
the letdown of xcom:eu led me here.

Want to know the sad part? If XCOM draws in less money than CoD(or some other modern military style shooter 64) most publishers will say that's because TBS is a dead genre, not because XCOM had some legitimate problems.

I want to play games which is hard because the opponent is good, not because the game only allows me to run into combat with my arms tied and eyes blindfolded. I saw angry joes review where he said "this isn't a dumbed down game", but that is excactly what it is. Its a dumbed down game made for the general gamer audience like many of the other games out there and im sick of it. I can understand why people like the game, because it has some good parts. But its not the x.com game for me.

Welcome to the "People who think the new XCOM combat system sucks" boat ^^

It's got to the point where I mostly trust my perception of games from watching video playthroughs more than the majority of critical output, even from those veteran journalists I trust. For example, Rock Paper Shotgun did a favourable report on XCOM:EU, and even though it was a really well written piece, I couldn't simply buy the game off the back of reading Alec Meer's (qualified) praise, like I would have done when reading PC Gamer when I was younger - purely because I had already watched video playthroughs and I knew that the things I saw in the game would affect my enjoyment of XCOM. This was vindicated when I eventually played it for a whole day at a friend's. Enjoyable in parts but the little bits dig at me.

The apples and oranges argument is fine, but in this context you can't begrudge people expecting their apples, and getting freaked out when they get a pineapple. I think it's fair to say the majority of people who have fond memories of the originals loved their micro management and the tough decisions that brought along, and the sometimes grueling (lack of) pacing. Other people might rather point at the alien menace, the variably brutal difficulty and sci-fi tropes and so on, which are still in the game (even enhanced) and be more happy than the first group.

I really don't think it's unfair to expect a deep and demanding management/tactics game from something bearing the XCOM name, and because it doesn't really fulfil those characteristics, to question why it was ever branded under that license in the first place.

[StarSlayer]

Could we please not tread down this path again?  Because I've seen all the sights along the road and I doubt there will be anything new to behold.  He doesn't like it, he's entitled to his opinion and five angry pages later that's not going to change.

I think there are plenty of threads that stand in mute testament to this being the case. 

Einstein has a certain quote about repetitive action expecting different results.

[Polpolion]

Trashman, I agree with many of your points, but quoting random sods on the internet is really not a good way to support your case.

[NGTM-1R]

Quotes without verifiable attribution are meaningless.

[General Battuta]

Thread's dead, baby. Thread's dead.

[Mongoose]

It will be in short order if it turns into what I suspect it will.

[FireSpawn]

I still don't know how I feel about this game, even after watching so much gameplay footage. The combat feels off to me, and call me a masochist, but I enjoyed having to make sure that I packed the guns on the Skyranger and then trying to do a night time terror mission with stun rods and smoke grenades against Chrysalids and Snakemen when I realise that the guns are on the other bird.

[NGTM-1R]

I had a rather annoyingly anticlimatic ending when I realized I only needed to kill one alien to win and they spawn where they're visible from the door.

Double tap solves all problems.

[General Battuta]

Holy **** I love mods. Absolutely going to try this out. More UFO activity? More pressure on your interceptor force? Mutators for NG+? Sign me uuup

[TrashMan]

Trashman, I agree with many of your points, but quoting random sods on the internet is really not a good way to support your case.

Showing that random people don't like the new X-Com doesn't support the claim that there are plenty of people who do not like the new X-Com?
Ok...then how would you go about showing it?

On second thought, ignore that question.

Quotes without verifiable attribution are meaningless.

All those quetes are from a single thread on the Xenonauts forums. You can find it on General Xenonauts Discussion there. There are serveral threads there. There are pletny similar threads in other forums.
Check it out if you don't belive me. Or don't.
Wether you belive it or not is not my concern.

I said what I wanted to say and there's no point is word fencing with you. Consider this case closed.

[Scourge of Ages]

In other news: Good game, would play again.

I finished! On classic difficulty, with a minimum (for me) save abusing. On the final mission

Spoiler:

I only lost one guy, and he was just critically wounded. The boss went down like a sack of pancakes when my assault soldier Run & Gunned up to point-blank range and shot him in the face. Twice. With an alloy cannon.

I then attempted to start a new game on Impossible/Ironman. I lost twice and went back to Classic/Ironman. So far so good.

[The E]

Yesterday, I assaulted the Alien base. I got through with only one shiv being lost. Felt pretty good.

[Fury]

Got the game yesterday. Even after experiencing the demo first, I have to say that the full game is kinda meh. I never played the old xcom games, but I have to agree with some of the design and gameplay issues that have been already mentioned earlier.

[deathfun]

So has anyone played this on console?

I know it sounds like hierarchy to this particular group, but I'm just curious as to the differences

I was thinking about picking it up for my PS3 

[TrashMan]

Now, as to the subject of entitlement, let's not use that word. It's poisoned by pages upon pages of stupid debate about what gamers expect from a game versus what they actually got. In this instance, it seems to me that it's more of a matter of expectations, and people not willing to let go of what they thought the game would be like. The discussion about the new XCOM, for example, is currently being poisoned by people who expected to get exactly the same game as the original X-COM, but who were disappointed when they found out that not every little gameplay quirk the original had was ported over. It's similar here; people were expecting Graphics on par with the big leagues, but were disappointed when it turned out that the dev team apparently had other priorities.

For shame Sir. For shame.

Talking so ill about other people for not sharing you oppinion (and assuming too much in the process).

For the record - I knew exactly what XCOM:EU would be like, and I had no flawed expectations.
It's NOT a bad game, but I have every right to not like it's direction and to say so publicly.