Author Topic: About Admiral Ahmose  (Read 4046 times)

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Snipes tolds you he knew about the SOC operations and he still interfered with the mission and that he is a renegade. But for some reason i don't believe him. What if Ahmose really didn't know about the SOC in Polaris and the reason they want you to kill the Vasudans it's because they wanted Bosch to escape again? 

 

Offline Rga_Noris

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I suppose its possible, but there really is not any evidence to suggest that. Based on the information Snipes was given, he is a renagade. There is really no way of knowing he was lied to.

The issues that arise is that the convoys location could only have been leaked by an SOC agent... meaning Ahmose MUST have had access to that information. The likely hood of Ahmose and his battle group just accidently stumbling upon The Iceni is non-existant.
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Offline yuezhi

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Ahmose is an admiral so he's at least got to know stuff an enlisted pilot wouldn't because he has a higher level of authorization, maybe level Gamma? i don't know which way it goes.

actually, go to your nearest military base and ask about "secret weapons" along with an elaborate excuse. Higher-ups then and today are always hiding something.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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I've always thought it odd that A: Ahmose would know about SOC operations (he don't have need to know, and the GTVA has always been crap at deciding people who actually need to know need to know), and B: that Snipes would know he had been ordered not to attack the Iceni.

The second one seems particularly unlikely. Why would Snipes know this? How?
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Offline Klaustrophobia

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i would guess he was told "no one will attack you"
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Offline NGTM-1R

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i would guess he was told "no one will attack you"

Yes, but his knowledge can't be current. He can't just call Terran Command and ask for an update. Anything he's been told is going to be at least a day old, probably more. That might as well be from last century in the fluid tactical and strategic situation that is the collapsing NTF. (Which would incidentally only foul his lines of communication more.)
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Offline Klaustrophobia

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just replayed that bit of the campaign.  the way all the briefings/debriefings and in-mission chat reads, it seems snipes DOES have basically real-time and constant contact with terran command.  the debriefing specifically calls out ahmose as "having full knowledge of our activities here" and further stating that he is facing court martial, and that the pilots followed him knowing full well he was disobeying orders. 
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Offline karajorma

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Quote
The bad news is we're in a lot more danger than I think you realize. The Vasudan warships were under the command of Admiral Ahmose, who had full knowledge of our activities. The fact the Vasudans knew the exact time and position of the Iceni's departure has made the rebels just a little suspicious.

As usual, the GTVA is overplaying its hand. Ahmose and his subordinates now face a court martial for insubordination. The rebs are all over that one. Not only did the Admiral know the position of the Iceni, he wasn't authorized to act on that information. Our squadron will be high on the NTF's list of suspects.

One more thing. The pilots under Ahmose's command had been informed of his renegade status before they launched their attack. Under these circumstances, we had little choice but to return fire or blow the entire operation.

Sounds to me like the fact that the Admiral exceeded his authority is something that is well known by the NTF.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Sounds to me like the fact that the Admiral exceeded his authority is something that is well known by the NTF.

Knowledge demonstrated after the fact. That's useless to the discussion how Snipes knew it at the time.

When the first wing jumps in, Snipes has no way of knowing that things haven't progressed to the point where the GTVA has decided to go "**** it" and take the NTF off at the head. The situation at that moment is extremely fluid, the NTF is falling apart and the Shivans are still a going concern back by Capella. You're under deep cover (you wouldn't be able to fly a fighter for the NTF otherwise), so both you and Snipes almost have to be working off of information from the GTVA side that has been rehandled many times, with the delay inherent.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 02:33:29 pm by NGTM-1R »
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Offline karajorma

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Firstly, I was replying to Klaustrophobia.

Secondly, you make a great many assumptions. If there is no way to track subspace transmissions for instance, there is no reason Snipes couldn't be in direct contact with GTVA command over the radio of his fighter. The only way the NTF would ever find that out was if they bugged his fighter or record all cockpit communication.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 11:39:09 pm by karajorma »
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Offline NGTM-1R

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record all cockpit communication.

That ain't an assumption, that's standard operating procedure now and recording isn't likely to ever change as the recorders get smaller and the number of craft and accidents stays the same or gets bigger. (How many times have you been hit by wingmen, again?) He'd have to bypass it just to talk to you in the missions.

If there is no way to track subspace transmissions for instance, there is no reason Snipes couldn't be in direct contact with GTVA command over the radio of his fighter.

If that were true, why do you only come into contact with Terran Command after your cover has been thoroughly blown? Why does only Snipes speak to you via his "disguised as targeting data" doohicky in every mission (in fact why even have the doohicky?), why aren't you supported by Terran Command? Your statement flies in the face of the internal logic of SOC Loop 1.

And it's not enough to not be able to track/intercept, you'd have to be able to not detect them period; otherwise other ships in the area could notice you were transmitting and know you shouldn't be/the NTF could timestamp it to compare to authorized transmissions they could identify a legit purpose for.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 01:13:37 am by NGTM-1R »
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Offline karajorma

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That ain't an assumption, that's standard operating procedure now and recording isn't likely to ever change as the recorders get smaller and the number of craft and accidents stays the same or gets bigger. He'd have to bypass it just to talk to you in the missions.

And FS2 is always respectful of how things work in real life.

Even if the NTF do record all cockpit conversations, (and that is an assumption), Snipes obviously has somehow disabled that in both your craft and his own. Furthermore he's obviously disabled it in such a way that it doesn't instantly draw suspicion on him the second the NTF start thinking that his squadron might contain a spy.

That they don't record communications is the option I find more believable.

Quote
If that were true, why do you only come into contact with Terran Command after your cover has been thoroughly blown? Why does only Snipes speak to you via his "disguised as targeting data" doohicky in every mission, why aren't you supported by Terran Command? Your statement flies in the face of the internal logic of SOC Loop 1.

Double the number of people talking to Terran Command and you double the number of people who can get caught talking to Terran Command. Who's to say Snipes doesn't have a long distance version of the same dohickey he used to talk to you. Who's to say it also doesn't register as targeting data? There are several reasons why Snipes might have one and you don't.

Like I said, you're making massive assumptions and then assuming that anyone who contradicts you hasn't thought things through.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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And FS2 is always respectful of how things work in real life.

FS2, like most works of fiction, runs on Like Reality Unless Noted so it doesn't spend twenty years doing exposition.

I should not have to explain that to you. You're smarter than that.

Even if the NTF do record all cockpit conversations, (and that is an assumption), Snipes obviously has somehow disabled that in both your craft and his own. Furthermore he's obviously disabled it in such a way that it doesn't instantly draw suspicion on him the second the NTF start thinking that his squadron might contain a spy.

Considering he's able to scramble communications between you and hide them as targeting data, this doesn't sound hard. Your communications systems have already been significantly altered from their standard operating modes and that's not detectable either.

The door is wide open.

That they don't record communications is the option I find more believable.

Why? For purposes of arguing with me alone?

As noted: Electronic trickery is already in play. Your craft's communications systems have already been noticeably tampered with simply to allow you and Snipes to talk securely and unobtrusively. This wouldn't even be necessary unless NTF ships maintained accurate electronic records of communications (there's that pesky recording again!), as in the heat of combat a scrambled transmission from one fighter to another probably isn't something of note. Snipes also uses his secure communications method even when there are no witnesses, c.f. Love The Treason, suggesting he has more to get around than just being seen talking to you by others.

Double the number of people talking to Terran Command and you double the number of people who can get caught talking to Terran Command.

And if you can get caught talking to Terran Command directly and are a highly placed critical intelligence asset, you don't talk to Terran Command directly at all. The resources the GTVA was willing to commit to extract you alive, to extract the Sunder, to extract Snipes during Loop 2, indicate that you and he are of great value and as such will not be placed at casual risk such a method of communication would pose.

There is an argument here, that Snipes would be trusted with such a method of communication since as a long-term trained operative of SOC he would be trusted to know when its use was necessary...but such an argument boils down to the GTVA's faith he won't use it. Which as far as we know he never did, if he did had it, which he probably didn't considering his training and job. (And don't cite the Grall, that could easily have been the transport's own communication systems.)

Who's to say Snipes doesn't have a long distance version of the same dohickey he used to talk to you.

See above. See below. See anyone with a basic understanding of how intelligence operations work.

Who's to say it also doesn't register as targeting data?

Because there are attack my target commands within the comm menu. Because your fighter is presumably like all other friendly fighters and when targeted by a friendly broadcasts to them what you are attacking. Because it's only useful information to someone directly engaged in combat. Because a stream of such data from outside the battle zone could be picked up by too many people regardless of the tightness of the beam, all it takes is another fighter passing in front of yours relative to the source. Because they would notice the lack of a ship it's being transmitted from. Because without a direct view of the battlefield the disguising of it as targeting data can be easily ****ed up to not match battlefield conditions. Because there's no reason to be beaming targeting data off into deep space.

Like I said, you're making massive assumptions and then assuming that anyone who contradicts you hasn't thought things through.

If you will not explain your reasoning, why should I take it seriously? I may make assumptions, but they are good ones. Yours, on the other hand, appear adopted solely so you can argue with me, an impression reinforced by the fact you don't explain them. And that I can so easily think up reasons why they don't make sense.
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Offline karajorma

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Sometimes I wonder why I bother with you. You're not the only person on this thread allowed to have an opinion. You're certainly not allowed to back up yours in this fashion. If you can't maintained a civilised tone, you'll be monkeyed.



The NTF may record transmissions but it is quite clear they DO NOT record all sounds in the cockpit. If they did then Snipes would either have to turn that off, or find some way to block that machine every time he sends you a message. That's pretty retarded as there would be obvious gaps in the recordings every single time he spoke to you. So as I originally stated there's no reason to believe that Snipes can't be using some device in his fighter allowing him to communicate in real time with command.

As for your comment about beaming data into deep space, again we have the assumption that the NTF can even detect that his fighter is beaming anything into deep space. As I was trying to point out, the issue is whether the NTF can detect subspace transmissions in the first place or whether they simply record everything said over the ship's radio. If it's the latter then we're back to whether or not Snipes has some way to make long distance transmissions or not.
 You can argue all you like that he wouldn't use it but the question then becomes why the hell not? Being able to communicate directly with your superiors and receive up to date intel and orders while cutting out the middle-men (who easily could be double agents) is a very useful ability for a spy. Why wouldn't you use that if it was untracable?
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Offline Sololop

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I'm gonna stick my nose in here, because these petty arguments are all to common on this forum.


Sometimes I wonder why I bother with you. You're not the only person on this thread allowed to have an opinion. You're certainly not allowed to back up yours in this fashion. If you can't maintained a civilised tone, you'll be monkeyed.

Opinions are exactly what is being posted. Seeing a threat of power like this is just outrageous.

The NTF may record transmissions but it is quite clear they DO NOT record all sounds in the cockpit. If they did then Snipes would either have to turn that off, or find some way to block that machine every time he sends you a message. That's pretty retarded as there would be obvious gaps in the recordings every single time he spoke to you. So as I originally stated there's no reason to believe that Snipes can't be using some device in his fighter allowing him to communicate in real time with command.

Recording of sounds and flight data is standard on all commercial airliners today, and ships as well. Assuming they don't exist in FS is literally crazy. There is zero reason to backtrack from this technology. The benefit from this sort of data is beyond useful in any number of situations.

This forum gets more stuck up and ignorant every day. I don't post often, but points like these just make me think "Are you clueless?"


 

Offline General Battuta

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Offline mjn.mixael

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Well.. if the flight sounds are recorded then the NTF would have been onto Snipes and Alpha 1 pretty early on. So meh, I could care a less about whether or not we do it, it's pretty clear the NTF doesn't. Or they are just really, really stupid to not understand what Snipes and Alpha 1 were talking about during any of the missions.

Also, I do generally perceive NGTM-1R as a hostile arguer around here and reflect Kara's sentiments.
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If they were recording flight sounds and stuff, couldn't Snipes just loop some background sound into the recorder while he communicates? Like how they spoof surveillance cameras in the movies? I'm sure he has the capability, being a high-level intelligence operative.

 
 

Offline Crybertrance

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