[karajorma]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/22/world/asia/nato-commander-apologizes-for-koran-disposal-in-afghanistan.html?ref=asia

Word that NATO personnel had burned an undisclosed number of Korans and were preparing to dispose of many more by incineration set off an angry protest here on Tuesday. NATO officials rushed to apologize publicly and profusely, trying to head off what they feared could be a nationwide outburst of violence as news of the burning was gradually broadcast across the country.

If you're ignorant of what to do with an old Koran, ASK!

[jr2]

Ya I know, right?

[MP-Ryan]

Two NATO-forces members dead already as a result.  Respecting culture is one thing (and I agree this was rampant stupidity on the part of the NATO forces), but certain religious fundamentalists need to lighten the **** up and cease the taking of lives over the slightest bit of offense.  Good grief, if Western nations got as offended about destruction of theirs flag or calls for all of them to die, the majority of the Middle East would have been turned into glass some years ago.

It's a book.  Yes, it's a holy book, yes, burning it is an affront to your religion, yes, it was a stupid thing to do... but FFS it isn't worth taking human lives over. *headdesk*

[Klaustrophobia]

we burn some old korans for the purpose of disposal, riots and death.


they burn american flags for the express purpose of offending us, we apologize for being us. 


 

[Bobboau]

I am wondering when their reactions are going to be enough to make those among us who are saying we should apologist to say, 'no. you know what, you are wrong here.'. I suppose there is no such depth.

[karajorma]

Two NATO-forces members dead already as a result.  Respecting culture is one thing (and I agree this was rampant stupidity on the part of the NATO forces), but certain religious fundamentalists need to lighten the **** up and cease the taking of lives over the slightest bit of offense. 

Won't deny that but while it might still be assault if you walk into a biker bar, find the biggest guy and then stare at his girl's tits, that doesn't make it a clever thing to do.

Stupid, violent people do stupid, violent things. If America was in the same situation, you can bet burning a bible would cause the same reaction. In fact Muslims burning a bible NOW would probably cause a similar reaction in America.

[jr2]

Yeah, but I have to wonder what kind of rock you have to live under to know that certain religions take any perceived slight against their religious rules seriously, and that the reactions of some of the group I just mentioned are prone to violence or can be stirred to violence by those in authority in their religion that wish to do so.

I mean, hello... anyone home?  Nope, I guess not.

Yes, the reaction was over[no pun intended]kill, of the same category as the father who shot a couple that deleted his daughter from Facebook (no one insults my daughter like that... wha-  grow up already!?).  However, knowing that these things would likely result if their method of disposal was incorrect,

1) Why did they not know the proper procedure for disposing of Korans (if there even is one)
2) Why do so in public?  Just in case some nut takes offense, maybe make sure no one's looking?

Makes me wonder if someone put them up to it or if they were intentional in what they did.

Quick googling gets this:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?3443-ANSWERED-How-do-we-dispose-of-scripts-of-the-holy-quran

salaam,

inshallah check these. they may provide some assistance

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3367

http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=9302

http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=2605

also the below is from www.sunnipath.com

Would it be permissible to use a paper shredder to dispose of material with Qur'anic verses on them?
Answered by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari
Would it be permissible to use a paper shredder to dispose of material with Qur'anic verses on them?

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful
With regards to disposing and getting rid of unwanted Islamic literature, many classical jurists (fuqaha) state that the best way to get rid of it is to bury it in a place where people normally would not walk. There is also nothing wrong in casting the literature in flowing water by tying it with something heavy. Alternatively, one may burn the Islamic literature, but only after erasing the name of Allah Most High, His angels and Messengers. (See: Radd al-Muhtar ala al-Durr al-Mukhtar, 5/271 and other classical Fiqh references)
Now, shredding Islamic literature is akin to burning it, hence the same rule would apply, in that it will be permitted to use a paper shredder to shred it, but only after erasing the name of Allah Most High, His angels and His Messengers. Also, one should avoid throwing the shredded remains in the bin; rather, one should bury the remains somewhere where people would not normally walk.
Note that the above ruling is only with regards to Islamic literature such as papers, Islamic books and other such material. As far as the Qur'an is concerned, there is a separate ruling concerning its disposal.
And Allah knows best
Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari
Darul Iftaa, Leicester, UK

wasalaam

EDIT:

In fact Muslims burning a bible NOW would probably cause a similar reaction in America.

Oh, wait, you were joking, right?    When's the last time you heard of Muslims / Arabs being killed for insulting Christians / Americans?

FFS, they routinely kill converts to Christianity in quite a few Muslim countries.  Are there riots??  I didn't think so.

[CT27]

Oh, wait, you were joking, right?    When's the last time you heard of Muslims / Arabs being killed for insulting Christians / Americans?

FFS, they routinely kill converts to Christianity in quite a few Muslim countries.  Are there riots??  I didn't think so.

A recent example of this:

http://aclj.org/iran/execution-orders-issued-pastor-youcef-nadarkhani

[Mongoose]

Two NATO-forces members dead already as a result.  Respecting culture is one thing (and I agree this was rampant stupidity on the part of the NATO forces), but certain religious fundamentalists need to lighten the **** up and cease the taking of lives over the slightest bit of offense. 

Won't deny that but while it might still be assault if you walk into a biker bar, find the biggest guy and then stare at his girl's tits, that doesn't make it a clever thing to do.

Unfortunately, you're absolutely right.  It may be an insane reaction, but it's also a completely-expected insane reaction, and the personnel who did it are extreme idiots.

[karajorma]

Oh, wait, you were joking, right?    When's the last time you heard of Muslims / Arabs being killed for insulting Christians / Americans?

I meant in America. Not in a Muslim country.

Get a buch of Muslims together and burn some bibles in the US. See what happens. According to you it would some mild protest.

[SypheDMar]

Oh, wait, you were joking, right?    When's the last time you heard of Muslims / Arabs being killed for insulting Christians / Americans?

I meant in America. Not in a Muslim country.

Get a buch of Muslims together and burn some bibles in the US. See what happens. According to you it would some mild protest.

Remember the Hate Speech in Orange County*? Imagine what would have happened if a hater brought a gun and a muslim burned the Bible. Oh, and no police to keep the peace (if possible).


*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NutFkykjmbM

[karajorma]

Yep, that pretty much underscores my point precicely.

[Klaustrophobia]

big difference being the rest of the world would then be condemning the hate speechers, not the ones who burned the bible.

that and i see a SMALL difference between getting shot when you deliberately offend a rally of racists than accidentally doing something offensive inciting terrorist attacks.

[karajorma]

Actually the world would condemn both most likely. Which is pretty much what happened in Afghanistan.


And you must be dreaming if you think that the rally of racists would be the only place there would be violence. Idiots all over the country would also take it as an excuse to go out and commit hate crimes. The only difference between America and Afghanistan in this is that Afghanistan has a bigger proportion of ignorant idiots who are easily swayed by their demagogues.

[Grizzly]

Oh, wait, you were joking, right?    When's the last time you heard of Muslims / Arabs being killed for insulting Christians / Americans?

I meant in America. Not in a Muslim country.

Get a buch of Muslims together and burn some bibles in the US. See what happens. According to you it would some mild protest.

Hmm. Nuance: Those korans where burned accidently as part of a generic waste disposal. Bibles may or may not have been burned as well (considering that this is a standard practice, hundreds of bibles might just have been burned already, but nobody is complaining...). Your suggestion implies the deliberate burning of the bible to insult christians.
I think that most people would be able to see the nuance... Then again, the protestors that are causing the havoc right now probably never heard of the nuance and just have been told that the americans are deliberately burning korans.

And you must be dreaming if you think that the rally of racists would be the only place there would be violence. Idiots all over the country would also take it as an excuse to go out and commit hate crimes. The only difference between America and Afghanistan in this is that Afghanistan has a bigger proportion of ignorant idiots who are easily swayed by their demagogues.

You sure about that? Considering how many people like Rick Santorum so much...

[Bobboau]

/*considers building a piece of art consisting of a high speed industrial laser printer feeding directly into a propane incinerator, and the printer is programed to continuously print out the Koran over and over again.*/

[karajorma]

Hmm. Nuance: Those korans where burned accidently as part of a generic waste disposal. Bibles may or may not have been burned as well (considering that this is a standard practice, hundreds of bibles might just have been burned already, but nobody is complaining...). Your suggestion implies the deliberate burning of the bible to insult christians.
I think that most people would be able to see the nuance... Then again, the protestors that are causing the havoc right now probably never heard of the nuance and just have been told that the americans are deliberately burning korans.

Nuance, my original point was that if America was in the same position as Afghanistan you'd get exactly the same reaction from an accidental burning. And that you can see that in the fact that a deliberate burning does get the same response even now.

[deathfun]

So... how do you dispose of old religious texts?
In Canada, we burn our old flags in a private, respectful manner.

I decided to look it up, and came across this

There are no specific scriptural instructions on how to dispose of an old Bible. While God's Word is holy and to be honored (Psalm 138:2), there's nothing sacred or hallowed in the physical materials: the paper, parchment, leather, and ink.

Bury it, erase it, or store it indefinitely. The Quran does not include instructions for its own disposal, and Mohammed never appears to have addressed the issue. Islamic scholars, however, offer several options. According to a recent essay by Jonas Svensson, a Swedish professor of Islamic studies, the most venerable method seems to be to wrap the text in cloth and store it indefinitely in a safe place.

Upon reading this, I found it highly amusing that it isn't actually stated anywhere, what to do with them. So, the people burning the texts weren't actually offending anyone by doing that. People took offense without actually realizing, that they shouldn't. It's clearly stated not to burn the American Flag when they get old. It is not stated anywhere, that you can't burn bibles or the Quran. There is however, clear saying what to do with a Torah

Unlike Judaism which requires a Torah scroll that is damaged beyond repair to be buried in a Jewish cemetery,

So really, NATO wasn't doing anything wrong. People just fail to understand their own religion. Not only that, but check this out

Burning isn’t a popular choice, because fire is associated with the devil as well as the early rival religion Zoroastrianism, but some scholars find it acceptable. Saudi religious authorities place burning on par with burial, as long as it’s done ritually on mosque property. They point out that Uthman ibn Affan, a friend to the prophet and early caliph, sanctioned the burning of nonconforming Qurans after compiling the official version. Other scholars view burning as a last resort, for example, in an emergency situation to prevent the book from being defiled. After burning, the ashes should be buried or scattered over water.

I mean sure, they didn't do it on Mosque property, but the main point is the fact there are so many different opinions on what to do with the thing, and no solid matter-of-fact of what to do with the thing
Sources:
http://christianity.about.com/od/biblestudyresources/qt/Old-Bible.htm
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/02/afghan_quran_burning_protests_what_s_the_right_way_to_dispose_of_a_quran_.html

[newman]

While I find Kara's point perfectly valid - you have to know this will result in some rather warm, brown and smelly stuff hitting the fast rotating blades originally designed to move air - there is one thing that kind of pisses me off here. While you can find fanatics in any given religion, if anyone had burned bibles there is a very high chance nobody would end up dead. With Islam, look at them the wrong way and there's usually deaths involved. And we all got used to it - walk around on eggshells when they're close by, or I hope you like C-4 in your cereal. I'm sick of their extremists holding the world hostage.

But yeah, dumb move anyway.

[karajorma]

I'm rather sick of them too. But the way to deal with these idiots is to marginalise them. So that no one wants to listen to them because they realise that they are the sad pathetic psychopaths they really are. Burning the Koran doesn't help with that. Acting like no one in America is equally stupid doesn't help with that.