[MP-Ryan]

Can't say I heard of such incidents on my college.

That's exactly the problem - now you're catching on.

Absence of evidence proves what exaclty? That the numbers here and there are the same? Doubt it.
Not saying there isn't unreported rape, but  I dobut it's even near the same percentage as wherever you got your stats from.

Check your national unreported crime studies (most sociology departments run them).  Sexual assault is the most underreported criminal offense, in every country, and the statistics are striking similar in most developed nations.  An extremely small minority of actual sexual assaults are ever reported, and most of the actual perpetrators never see the inside of a court house, nevermind a jail cell.

[General Battuta]

No, the rate is probably higher simply because most assaults will never be reported, no matter where you go. It has nothing to do with what country you live in.

Most rapes aren't committed by 'sexual deviants' and 'predators' in the sense of creepy strangers on the street - they're perpetrated by friends and family members, in either the victim or the attacker's homes.

According to the DOJ about 5% of rape attackers will ever see any jail time.

[bigchunk1]

Well, people seem to be much more interested talking about this than campaign ideas on the dreams forum. I'm somewhat amazed that this is even a heated discussion.
It bugs me when people drop the word 'rape' needlessly in a casual situation such as a video game. I immediately make several judgments about that person right then and there when they do: they're insensitive, they're not inquisitive, and they live comfortable lives.

They're insensitive:
No one would casually drop the word rape if they themselves were a rape victim. Someone who does therefore has an inability to empathize with rape victims, or worse, does not see rape as a big deal.

They're not inquisitive:
People who drop the term rape casually to me don't seem to have thought about the true meaning of the word too deeply. Sure, they might understand the situation where someone forcibly elicits sexual conduct with another, but the lingering psychological effects of a victim being overpowered and forced to give themselves is quite damaging. I feel that if someone can't make a personal connection to the pain of rape, at least they can try to make an intellectual one.

They live comfortable lives:
This is more of a personal judgment, but I get the feeling that insensitive individuals who have not experienced trauma in their lives have an inability to understand how damaging trauma can be. It is much easier to make statements about how rape isn't a big deal etc. if they themselves have not felt the pain of broken trust or a violent act. I suppose it's not their fault they live comfortable lives, but that should come with a level of humility, therefore requiring either an inquisitive nature or a level of sensitivity.
 
So, when I am having fun with a group of friends and one of them just blurts out "Oh man rape!". I feel a level of embarrassment for that person, and then begin wondering why I am hanging out with this person. I don't like to think about it in terms of maturity or childishness, because those terms imply a lot of other things that distract from the issue. It's merely a set of traits required to use the word in its casual form.

Lastly, the "why is murder casual and generally accepted" comment is a fair point to make. I don't have an answer for this and am not satisfied by the answers given in the posts I have read. I get the feeling if someone close to me were murdered I would be much less likely to drop the subject casually in business or among friends. e.g. "Hey we killed that deal!" In reference to salesmen getting a contract signed. This use of homicide to draw an analogy does not bother me in the slightest. These videogames we play in developed countries, many of them involve killing and this is fun to us. Maybe that's sick but I'm hopelessly fascinated by it. Perhaps if I were living in a violent militia controlled third world country, my perception of killing/murder would be very different.   

[Scotty]

I'm aware and you're missing my point.

No, you're not.

Lets take the figures from Battuta's post, that we have absolutely no reason to doubt, given that he's a consistent, well-intentioned and typically very well informed forumite, and use them.  Sixteen percent of sexual assaults are reported.  Sixteen percent.  Doesn't sounds like it means much, does it?

What it means is that for every single rape or attempted rape that gets reported, there are five others that do not.  Take whatever rape statistics you have in your country, or look at those for the United States, and then multiply that by five.  That's much closer, and is even using the larger percentage from this discussion.  MP-Ryan very helpfully brought up the figure of 2%, and rightly pointed out it very likely varies by region, but think about that for a bit.  For every rape or sexual crime reported, there are nearly fifty that occur.

Rape isn't always the 'pinned down in a dark alley' you seem to be so damn convinced it is.  Rape is much more often the 'slip something into a drink so she can't say no' at a random party, or a date that goes too far and one party can't stop the other.

So can it with the self-righteous goalpost moving horse**** and man up to realize that defending usage of the word rape in a casual sense helps every rapist in the world do it easier.

[Nuke]

im of the opinion that rapists are grossly under penalized. given the rate of unreported abuses, its not unreasonable that a rapist on trial has committed more rapes than for which they are accused. sentences should be much longer than they are. it is somewhat comforting that rapists end up being prime targets for prison rape.

[General Battuta]

This thread (mostly) does me so proud o7

[MP-Ryan]

This thread (mostly) does me so proud o7

I have to agree.  It's one of the better discussions around here in recent months.

[TrashMan]

No, the rate is probably higher simply because most assaults will never be reported, no matter where you go. It has nothing to do with what country you live in.

That doesn't make any sense.
You don't have any numbers yet keep insiting that the number of sex-crimes (and rape specificly) is higher in my country.

I think some miscommunication happened here.
I'm talkign about rape crimes in total. Reported and unreported.

So can it with the self-righteous goalpost moving horse**** and man up to realize that defending usage of the word rape in a casual sense helps every rapist in the world do it easier.

BS.

They're insensitive:
No one would casually drop the word rape if they themselves were a rape victim. Someone who does therefore has an inability to empathize with rape victims, or worse, does not see rape as a big deal.

More BS.



***


that said, a thought.

If "misuse" (comparison to something that isn't as bad) of word rape is bad because it trivializes the word (and by proxy, the suffering of people), then wouldnt' that apply to ALL words?
I mean, how many people mis-use hte word natzi? How many peopel compared other peopel or faction to natzi's? Or called someone a grammar natzi? I know for a fact that this happened here a lot (by each and every one of you..at least once).
Doesn't comparing anyone to a natzi trivilize the evil of a natzi, and thus the attrocities they commited?
By that logic, we all - including you MP and Batt -  are as guilty as I am.

On the other hand, isn't the absurdity of the comparison exactly the point? Saying "that movie is so bad I'd rather have a rusty, hot halberd showed up my ass" cerntaly doens't have any logical comparion. OF COURSE the move ain't that bad. But the absurdity serves to emphasize exactly how bad it is...and not to trivilaize torture (in this case). Or natzi's. Or rape.

So does the phrase convey the intended meaning? Yes. Can you say it another way? Probably.


meh.. I'm tired. I'm hitting hte bed and I doubt I'm gonna continue tomorrow. There's not much mroe to be said and I don't have much interest in it anyway (now that that JAIB download is finally finished).


One last point - WHY IS THIS IN THE GAME DISCUSSIO NADN NOT GENERAL DISC????

[MP-Ryan]

Since Batts mentioned the DOJ numbers, here's some from Canada (about 5 years old now).

Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics 2007 Report on Sexual Assault Highlights (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85f0033m/2008019/hl-fs-eng.htm)

    About one in ten sexual assaults is reported to police, according to the 2004 General Social Survey (GSS) on Victimization. With only a small proportion of sexual offences formally documented through law enforcement, the prevalence of sexual assault in Canada has been difficult to quantify.

    According to the 2004 GSS, there were about 512,000 incidents of sexual assault, representing a rate of 1,977 incidents per 100,000 population aged 15 and older. Given that most sexual assaults go unreported, police-reported sexual assault counts are notably lower, with about 24,200 sexual offences recorded by police in 2007.

    Victimization data suggest that the rates of sexual assault remained stable in recent years. However, police-reported data reveal a steady decline in offences coming to the attention of law enforcement for more than a decade.

    The majority of sexual offences in Canada are of a less severe nature. Victimization data indicate that most sexual assaults involved unwanted sexual touching (81%) rather than more severe sexual attacks (19%). Among the incidents that came to the attention of police in 2007, the large majority (86%) were level 1, the least serious form of sexual assault.

    The 2004 GSS showed that sexual victimization rates were dramatically higher among those aged 15 to 24, compared to those 55 and over. Additionally, over half of the sexual assault victims reported to police in 2007 were children and youth under the age of 18.

    When asked why they did not tell the police about the sexual assault, a majority of victims (58%) said that they did not report the incident because it was not important enough.

    While few sexual assault victims filed formal reports with police, most (72%) confided in friends and many turned to family (41%) and other informal sources of support.

    Similar to victims of other forms of violent crime, sexual assault victims commonly experienced anger, confusion and frustration as a result of their victimization.

Bold emphasis mine.

Now, what kind of message does it send to victims of sexual assault who already don't report it because they don't feel it's important enough when we trivialize their victimization by comparing it to a loss in a video game?

[The E]

WHY IS THIS IN THE GAME DISCUSSIO NADN NOT GENERAL DISC????

Because if it were, you wouldn't be able to reply to it?


....


Oh wait.

[MP-Ryan]

natzi

Godwin'd.

Oh, and it's

Nazi

SpellingNazi'd.

For the record, I'm not actually responding to that post because of his Godwin silliness.

[deathfun]

I'm just going to add my little tidbit six pages later in this discussion
I don't see what's wrong with using the word 'rape' as a description for someone getting their ass destroyed in a videogame

It doesn't denote maturity or immaturity. It doesn't show insensitivity to the act of rape, nor does it trivialize it.

To me, 'rape' is just a word that has succumbed into the territory of slang meanings. Gay suffered a similar fate, and so have many other words
Welcome to the evolution of the English language

[MP-Ryan]

I'm just going to add my little tidbit six pages later in this discussion
I don't see what's wrong with using the word 'rape' as a description for someone getting their ass destroyed in a videogame

It doesn't denote maturity or immaturity. It doesn't show insensitivity to the act of rape, nor does it trivialize it.

To me, 'rape' is just a word that has succumbed into the territory of slang meanings. Gay suffered a similar fate, and so have many other words
Welcome to the evolution of the English language

Allow me introduce you to page 4, and why the argument that "it's evolution of language" really doesn't cut it.

[The E]

I'm just going to add my little tidbit six pages later in this discussion
I don't see what's wrong with using the word 'rape' as a description for someone getting their ass destroyed in a videogame

It doesn't denote maturity or immaturity. It doesn't show insensitivity to the act of rape, nor does it trivialize it.

To me, 'rape' is just a word that has succumbed into the territory of slang meanings. Gay suffered a similar fate, and so have many other words
Welcome to the evolution of the English language

You have not read the thread. Do so now.

[bigchunk1]

They're insensitive:
No one would casually drop the word rape if they themselves were a rape victim. Someone who does therefore has an inability to empathize with rape victims, or worse, does not see rape as a big deal.

More BS.

  we got ourselves a wall and a tennis ball.

Let me put it another way then i'll stop: Why would you use a word such as rape with all its baggage and negative context and use it in a casual situation which has nothing to do with rape? You really need to draw an analogy about video game victories that badly? It's like inviting everyone to a party, everyone's laughing and having a good time and then all the sudden you suggest they all watch Schnidler's List. Why?! If you want to provoke an intelectual discussion about rape, sure, but you're not when you draw a casual video game analogy.  It's like rape is the punchline of a joke. Oh HAHA that rape, good one you insensative prick. That's what goes through my head when someone uses the word rape casually.

[deathfun]

Slang is still evolution. It's just not acceptable evolution
And I couldn't possibly move my way through that many pages of Trashman

[General Battuta]

I'm just going to add my little tidbit six pages later in this discussion
I don't see what's wrong with using the word 'rape' as a description for someone getting their ass destroyed in a videogame

It doesn't denote maturity or immaturity. It doesn't show insensitivity to the act of rape, nor does it trivialize it.

To me, 'rape' is just a word that has succumbed into the territory of slang meanings. Gay suffered a similar fate, and so have many other words
Welcome to the evolution of the English language

Hey, might want to read the entire thread!

Bigchunk I really like your posts on this topic.

[The E]

Slang is still evolution. It's just not acceptable evolution
And I couldn't possibly move my way through that many pages of Trashman

If you are unwilling to familiarize yourself with the discussion that came before, you should not try to enter it.

[MP-Ryan]

Slang is still evolution. It's just not acceptable evolution
And I couldn't possibly move my way through that many pages of Trashman

If you are unwilling to familiarize yourself with the discussion that came before, you should not try to enter it.

...because all the statements you just made have been addressed, deathfun, probably twice over by now.

[Mongoose]

WHY IS THIS IN THE GAME DISCUSSIO NADN NOT GENERAL DISC????

Because if it were, you wouldn't be able to reply to it?


....


Oh wait.

Not that I have much desire to do more than lurk in this thread, but bravo.