Author Topic: stuxnet was obama  (Read 8105 times)

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Offline BloodEagle

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No, it was definitely pretty tech-savvy by all accounts

If it hadn't gotten loose, I'd agree.

::EDIT::

Unless.... Maybe that's what they intended all along!  :eek2:

 

Offline esarai

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I don't think it getting loose has anything to do with it.  The weapon itself baffled many security teams that tried to decipher it, and utilized many zero-day exploits which were only revealed with the discovery of stuxnet.  The worm demonstrates a technological and logistical competence that should make many people (some we want to and some we don't want to) very uneasy.

Granted, the acknowledgement of this is likely going to cause a ****storm with Iran, unless they already knew.
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Offline The E

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The problem with these highly destructive exploits is that once they're known, everyone and their dog has an incentive to take it apart and harden their systems against it. They are, essentially, one-shot weapons; once their initial run has finished, everyone a state actor would want to hurt with it will probably have implemented countermeasures already.
And since there's no way to remove the actual malware from the world, once it has been used and disseminated, the probability of people figuring out how to control and subvert it rises sharply.

The best "cyberwarfare" (god what a stupid word) weapons are ones where the target only realizes they've been targeted by them years after the fact. Basically anything that can do intelligence gathering and communication interference for years without being detected.

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Offline General Battuta

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No, it was definitely pretty tech-savvy by all accounts

If it hadn't gotten loose, I'd agree.

::EDIT::

Unless.... Maybe that's what they intended all along!  :eek2:

It qualified for 'pretty tech savvy' the moment it actually did something. Getting loose in the wild is filed under 'totally inevitable and unsurprising'

 

Offline Bobboau

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The best "cyberwarfare" (god what a stupid word) weapons are ones where the target only realizes they've been targeted by them years after the fact. Basically anything that can do intelligence gathering and communication interference for years without being detected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_%28malware%29
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Offline Mikes

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Can't wait till hubris let's loose those new and improved "adaptive" and ultimately truly "self learning" worms in a few years or decades...   and god forbid self replicating nanites ever life up to their potential.

... this event reinforces my belief that yes we are as stupid and yes some government around the world or the other will be delighted to sick uncontrollable selfreplicating cyberweapons on their neighbors as soon as the option to becomes available.

My impression might be wrong... but from the article it didn't really sound "tech savy" to me, but rather more like fooling around with it because we can.

P.S. If the US considers these activities to be a serious offense along the lines of military attacks... then what about Congress approval for said attacks?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 10:24:51 am by Mikes »

 

Offline The E

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Quote
Can't wait till hubris let's loose those new and improved "adaptive" and ultimately truly "self learning" worms in a few years or decades...

Yes, because that's a real risk.....


....in science fiction, that is. In the real world, this whole self-learning business is strictly theoretical. As in, we don't really know how to do it reliably.

Quote
and god forbid self replicating nanites ever life up to their potential.

Yeah, because those are a realistic threat now....


....in science fiction. The biggest somewhat self-replicating mechanism we have right now is called a RepRap, and it lacks the capability to replicate its own basic function blocks. Doing self-replicating nanoscale machines is something we can only do by using (drumroll) bacteria. And that's a different kind of thing.

Quote
but from the article it didn't really sound "tech savy" to me, but rather more like fooling around with it because we can.

Right, yes, because a government spending god knows how much money on engineers clever enough to find a vulnerability in an enemies' weapon production pipeline, then creating an incredibly sophisticated and highly target-specific piece of software to surgically take out that pipeline without any of the messy "Let's drop bombs/send in special forces" business normally associated with such things is not in any way deliberate. This was a long-running intelligence program with a clear end-goal, and let us not forget that it worked rather well, and without any real persons getting hurt in the process. To me, that sounds like a real savvy move. But I can see how opinions might differ.
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Offline karajorma

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Certainly beats the hell out of Israel's other "Let's plant car bombs" approach.
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Offline Bobboau

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to be fair, Israel's plan does have some degree of effectiveness.
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Offline karajorma

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Can't deny that. But it does have collateral damage too. And that's not a good thing when you're trying to claim that the other side is the aggressor. 
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Offline jr2

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Erm, did I read something wrong here?  I thought Israel was a co-developer of the stuxnet worm..?

 

Offline Bobboau

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well, he is saying that it's the better plan.

I suppose I was the one to make the mistake of saying things to make it sound like Israel was uninvolved in stuxnet.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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I suspect Israeli involvement had more to do with delivery than with coding.
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Offline Mort

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I'm more interested in who was behind Flame though. Might be the US as well I suspect

 

Offline Nuke

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is this one of those take credit for the previous administration's projects to impress the voters so as to get re-elected kinda things, because thats what it smells like.
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is this one of those take credit for the previous administration's projects to impress the voters so as to get re-elected kinda things, because thats what it smells like.

It is kinda, although the one who saw the whole thing trough till the end should get the same credit as the one who started it all.

It's still quite a bit better then blaming the guy for what his predecessor did wrong, which is how the Republicna party appears to handle things nowadays.

 

Offline karajorma

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The article does say that Obama accelerated the program after he got into power. So while it wasn't his idea, he definitely deserves a lot of credit for seeing the value of the project and continuing it when he could have shut it down or let it languish with a much smaller budget.
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What I think it scary is that the US and Israel have no qualms in getting nuclear power plants blown up or otherwise go critical due to a virus. Isn't it kind of a big deal for inhabitants (and everyone living on the jetstream) if they go kaboom? Is there no other way to disable a nuclear power plant without a possibly catastrophic event?
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Offline The E

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Umm.

Where do you get the nuclear power plant angle from? stuxnet was targeted at centrifuges used to enrich Uranium, not reactors.

Besides, unless your nuclear power plant was designed and is run by monkeys, getting one into a fatal failure mode (as opposed to a safe failure mode) is hard.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 09:43:29 am by The E »
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Offline Klaustrophobia

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nuke power plants go critical all the time.  that's how they operate.
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