Author Topic: ME3 Extended cut  (Read 6162 times)

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Offline Crazy_Ivan80

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the endings seem like Deus Ex revisited more than anything else imho. Except the refuse one of course
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Offline ShivanSpS

  • 210
The point is, Destroy does not make sence from the catalyst POV, i still dont understand why he want Shepard to destroy him... Control does not make sence from Shepard POV, especially a Paragon Shepard, taking Control just betray everything Shepard was beliving in for the whole game, 5 minutes earlier it was telling to the IM that "If we destroy the reapers this ends now, but if you cant control them..." its either that or the "power hungry", thats why i think Paragon Shepard should not even be allowed to the control ending... and Synthesis is just... crap, also Synthesis its the choice that Catalyst wants you to take, thats an extra to NO TAKE IT. Also convert everyone intro synthetic/organic hybrids its kind of like converting everyone intro reapers...

To me, there is only ONE choice, Destroy, for 3 games has been finding a way to destroy the reapers, im not going to change of opinion in the critical moment... also its the only one where Shepard lives.

Refusal, its kind of obvius, but the mayor problem of it it dindt show everyone figthing to the last man! that end should have expanded lot more...

BTW, i really looking forward to see a FS2 ME mod... that will be kind of intense...
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 06:58:04 pm by ShivanSpS »

 

Offline Fury

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Destroy ending also means EDI and the Geth are gone. A paragon Shepard helped both extensively and probably wouldn't want to sacrifice them, especially right after the Geth evolved a step further thanks to Legion's sacrifice. A paragon could be willing to take the risk of controlling instead of sacrificing so many.

In addition, before the Catalyst confirmed that Shepard is in fact able to control the Reapers should he choose to, for all Shepard knew TIM was a lunatic for thinking so. In other words, Shepard did not know of any other choice other than destroy prior to Catalyst telling him of them. Up to that point, Shepard's only goal was to destroy the Reapers. But let's face it, controlling them instead has less collateral damage than destroy and from moral and ethic standpoint the better choice to synthesis.

So yeah, paragon choice is control since Shepard essentially sacrifices his being to save EDI and the Geth.

 

Offline ShivanSpS

  • 210
TO CONTROL Edi and the Geth will be the right expression, in the Control ending you see only masked Quarians on Rannoch in the same escene than in destroy, thats directly implies that the Geth are not longer living in Rannoch nor they are helping the Quarians as they wished, control remove the sinthetics free will in order to shepard to use as he/she see fit. Shepard is "indoctrinating" them in control... also take in consideration that if Destroy cant tell the diference from a Reaper to a Geth, Control neither...

Its basicly:
-Destroy, its the thing that everyone out there was fighting for, incluiding EDI and the Geth, and remember that EDI was willing to sacrifice itselft to destroy the Reapers. Shepard was also fighting for this.
-Control, if Shepard choose this it means it agree with the IM, Cerberus and their methods, with it might be possible, especially for a Renegade one.
-Sinthesis, Shepard agree with the Catalyst.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 02:15:20 am by ShivanSpS »

 

Offline Liberator

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My brother suggested that by choosing Control, Sheppard became the new Catalyst, which has maintained control of the Reapers for untold millions of year.

Basically, the Catalyst is a pocket calculator that tried to divide by zero when asked by it's creators to solve the problem of synthetic/organic violence.  This suggests that, despite it's power, it's not a terribly sophisticated constuct.  Given that it can't evolve it's own programming beyond seeing the Cycle as the only solution, something that more recent constructs like EDI and the Geth seem to have no issue doing.  This weakens his threat even more as it is now a question of nothing but overwhelming power, there's nothing philosophical about the Catalyst, it's just a broken machine.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

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Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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This is all assuming the Catalyst was telling the whole truth about all the possible options. I got the feeling that the Catalyst itself was once the creator of the Reapers (perhaps an organic race that built the Reapers, and was then destroyed by them - except that they had a failsafe in place). If it was once organic, it knows how to lie and manipulate, so I refused to take anything the little jerk said at face value. Especially because of the pesky little detail at the end of the destroy ending (with enough war assets, of course) where Shep is apparently alive. Surrounded by debris that definitely isn't from the Citadel.

And then there's this: with more war assets, you open up the control and synthesis endings. Why? They're not necessarily better. If you go in with very low war assets, the Catalyst doesn't need you to make a choice. The whole spiel about the solution not working rings hollow to me when the Reapers know they can win without too much trouble - and the refusal ending pretty much confirms that. But, if you gather everything you possibly can to fight them, well - it seems to me like the Catalyst feels threatened. The control and synthesis options, then, are simply careful manipulations to preserve the Catalyst's creations. What's to say that the Reapers won't overcome the control or grow hostile once more after the synthesis? What if the Catalyst was lying to Shep about him/her being the first organic to use the Crucible, and this has all happened before? It seems ridiculously unbelievable to me that, over millions and millions of years, none of the other cycles had races that were willing to work together to try and save their own asses. Javik intimates that the Protheans' cycle was rife with infighting, but the Protheans were also excessively arrogant and that's just one cycle.

The endings still raise more questions than they answer. I don't hate them, but I feel like there has to be more on the way.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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If it was once organic, it knows how to lie and manipulate
Don't need to have been organic for that. EDI lied to the Alliance crew of the Normandy while Shepard was detained before the beginning of ME3.
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Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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If it was once organic, it knows how to lie and manipulate
Don't need to have been organic for that. EDI lied to the Alliance crew of the Normandy while Shepard was detained before the beginning of ME3.

True. But there are some hints that an organic race created the Reapers. It definitely makes more sense that way, to me. It would explain why the only remnant of that race would want to avoid the "inevitable" conflict between the creators and their creations. As to why it thinks exterminating advanced space-faring civilizations is the "solution," preserving through destruction, well...it's certainly psychopathic from our point of view, but it's certainly not unheard of to hear of similar motives in spree/serial killers and other wingnuts.

It would also explain a vested interest in making sure the Reapers aren't destroyed, if indeed there is one.

I suppose if I had to rephrase the quoted statement, if it was once organic, it's much more likely to know how to lie and manipulate.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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True. But there are some hints that an organic race created the Reapers.

The new endings actually explain that the Catalyst was an AI construct of a race of organics, tasked with finding a solution to the problem of organics creating synthetics which try to wipe out organics.  The Catalyst actually says the Reapers were its solution, that its creators didn't agree with that solution, and its organic creators actually became the first Reaper.

I have to ask, did you actually listen to any of the new endings?  All of this stuff came out =)

Essentially, organic race made Catalyst AI and asked it to solve a problem.  Catalyst came up with a [flawed] solution.  Creators didn't like said solution.  Catalyst did it anyway.  Creators got turned into first Reaper.  Cycle continued since.  Catalyst AI exacerbated and solidified the problem it was designed to fix.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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True. But there are some hints that an organic race created the Reapers.

The new endings actually explain that the Catalyst was an AI construct of a race of organics, tasked with finding a solution to the problem of organics creating synthetics which try to wipe out organics.  The Catalyst actually says the Reapers were its solution, that its creators didn't agree with that solution, and its organic creators actually became the first Reaper.

I have to ask, did you actually listen to any of the new endings?  All of this stuff came out =)

Essentially, organic race made Catalyst AI and asked it to solve a problem.  Catalyst came up with a [flawed] solution.  Creators didn't like said solution.  Catalyst did it anyway.  Creators got turned into first Reaper.  Cycle continued since.  Catalyst AI exacerbated and solidified the problem it was designed to fix.

I must have missed the bit about the Catalyst actually being an AI instead of an "echo," if you will, of one of the organics. Minor blunder aside, it makes it even more likely that the Catalyst would lie to protect the Reapers, if it is indeed capable of lying (or at least lying my omission), like EDI.

But, hey, this is just my interpretation. I'm not BioWare's writers. But, I think there definitely will be more, if only for the purpose of selling DLC. At least the Extended Cut shows a modicum of "giving a f**k" on BioWare's part, so maybe all is not lost.  :D

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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It's less about giving a **** and more about trying to make up for the monumental PR loss they got because of this.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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It's less about giving a **** and more about trying to make up for the monumental PR loss they got because of this.

Darn it, I'm trying to avoid being overly cynical. :P The people that spent years on this franchise have to care, at least a little bit. The problem, of course, is that EA doesn't. I can't imagine how anyone could be dumb enough to believe that merging with EA is a good idea at this point. Their history of ruining good franchises is pretty extensive.

It's a race between EA and Activision to see who best can ruin the face of gaming and screw customers for more profit. Whoever wins, everybody loses!

 

Offline FireSpawn

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I just wish that they had stayed with the plan they had before the story got leaked. After all, here is proof that their fears that they didn't have enough time to try and rewrite the ending in any decent and fulfilling way were true. Now I want to read the leaked text, but I'm worried that it will cause me to actually hate (rather than be disappointed with) bioware.  :sigh:
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90% of ME3 is great, so most of BioWare doesn't suck.  It is just that the ending was written by Mac Walters, who has turned out to be a dick because he scribbled the ending down on paper margins and didn't submit it to the rest of the writing staff for review.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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It's a race between EA and Activision to see who best can ruin the face of gaming and screw customers for more profit. Whoever wins, everybody loses!

I dislike EA as much as the next guy, but I anyone with even an iota of fairness has to admit that gaming in general has come a long way (in a positive direction) in recent years, and part of that is due to the contributions of companies like EA and development studios like BioWare (who I will remind everyone was responsible for KOTOR and DA:O if they'd forgotten in their ME3 hatetrain).

Doesn't mean I forgive them for Origin (*spit*) or the mountains of crap games they also produce, but it's not entirely fair to BioWare to say the game in the ME trilogy with some of the best (if not the best) gameplay and storytelling in the series is garbage because they screwed up the ending.  I can think of a number of films and books that I would consider excellent novels where the ending left more than a little to be desired.  Hell, other current games - look at the ending(s) of the otherwise-excellent Deus Ex: Revolution for starters.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline TwentyPercentCooler

  • Operates at 375 kelvin
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It's a race between EA and Activision to see who best can ruin the face of gaming and screw customers for more profit. Whoever wins, everybody loses!

I dislike EA as much as the next guy, but I anyone with even an iota of fairness has to admit that gaming in general has come a long way (in a positive direction) in recent years, and part of that is due to the contributions of companies like EA and development studios like BioWare (who I will remind everyone was responsible for KOTOR and DA:O if they'd forgotten in their ME3 hatetrain).

Doesn't mean I forgive them for Origin (*spit*) or the mountains of crap games they also produce, but it's not entirely fair to BioWare to say the game in the ME trilogy with some of the best (if not the best) gameplay and storytelling in the series is garbage because they screwed up the ending.  I can think of a number of films and books that I would consider excellent novels where the ending left more than a little to be desired.  Hell, other current games - look at the ending(s) of the otherwise-excellent Deus Ex: Revolution for starters.

This is true, and the overall quality of ME3 was very good. I didn't think the ending was bad - there's just a lot that doesn't make sense, and that sort of suggests either a rush to production or a deliberate choice to make it nonsensical in the interests of exploiting that for DLC. Neither of those are what I'd come to expect from BioWare, which is one of the only quality AAA studios left. But first, there was SWTOR, which was also rushed and pushed through with a subpar and untested game engine, and then the...enigma, if you will, of the ME3 ending. Is it EA's bad influence? Maybe. Maybe not. But I'm terrified to think of a world without a quality BioWare.

I also agree that gaming has evolved significantly over the past few years, and a lot of the mainstream success and acceptance have been because of titles published by EA and Activision. Whether or not that's the right direction to take the industry is for another discussion, of course. Plus, we always have the "indie" studios, which are getting better and better, thanks in part to more support and interest - which wouldn't have been possible without the industry giants pushing like they have.

 

Offline Ace

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KOTOR unpolished?  :confused:

Dragon Age II on the other hand, that's really where we see the slide in Bioware's quality starting...
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Offline Beskargam

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not KOTOR. the old republic star wars mmo. Which i point out I still can't get to install/download/run on my gaming laptop but can on my parents desktop from 5+ years ago. It wasnt a high quality machine then either.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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KOTOR unpolished?  :confused:
You mean, aside from being an unplayable buggy mess ?
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline TwentyPercentCooler

  • Operates at 375 kelvin
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Yeah, nostalgia aside, KOTORs story and atmosphere was excellent, but the engine was...er, less than ideal. And that's being kind. I didn't have any major problems with it on my old gaming machine, but I knew a lot of people that did.

That being said, we gamers tend to be much more forgiving of buggy gameplay than we are with bad writing/design/aesthetics. Gamebryo engine. Enough said. Despite the exploded gib people, floating heads, bouncing radscorpions, and all the wading in the ground, Fallout: New Vegas is still one of my favorite games.

Comparatively, all of the ME games have been pretty polished, besides the galaxy map bug in the first game. Like I said, I don't utterly despise the ending of ME3. Sure, it could have been better, but after the frankly superb entries of ME1/ME2, the expectations were superhuman. I think it's more likely that instead of just being "bad," it was probably rushed and the devs didn't get to flesh out all the things they wanted to. It's pretty common in development - it was just that the bar was set high. I fear the same will happen to future installments of Half-Life. We've all been waiting so long...well, heck, it's gotta be sublime, right? It'll turn computers into servant androids that will dispense vodka, chocolate chip cookies, and funding for a new season of Firefly.

On a completely unrelated note that doesn't deserve its own topic: I keep wondering what my title means. 375 K...it's 20% cooler, but 20% cooler than what? 468.75 K seems an arbitrary number. I was expecting 218.52, derived from STP.  :confused:
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 01:39:22 am by TwentyPercentCooler »