Author Topic: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)  (Read 31109 times)

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Offline z64555

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Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
Hoarding tax? :wtf:

You do know about depreciation, right?

Last time I checked, the federal income tax system really does what it can to tax the "rich." Is this enough, is this not enough, will the citizens actually pay their taxes?
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Offline Aardwolf

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Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
Depreciation? *googles to see if you're using some specific meaning here*

Oh, that. Meh. Important thing is that they have way more money than they have any practical use for.

 
Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
Last time I checked, the federal income tax system really does what it can to tax the "rich." Is this enough, is this not enough, will the citizens actually pay their taxes?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/11/business/in-the-superrich-clues-to-romneys-tax-returns-common-sense.html?_r=1&ref=politics&gwh=056BE4E187DAB333220D7F8BC5E83185

Read that. And the stats in the article are from the IRS, BTW.

In essence, the superich actually pay a lot less than some other demographic groups. Most dramatically, 6/400 of the richest Americans succeeded in having to pay ZERO in taxes in 2009. ZERO.

America might nominally have a progressive tax structure, but the simple fact of the matter is that there exists such a ridiculous number of loopholes and stupidity like the ridiculously low capital gains tax that it really does not exist as such for many of the "1%".

 

Offline SypheDMar

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Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
Thread starter, I hope you're right! I know I'll definitely be voting.

Also: As far as I'm aware, Bush (Republican/neoconservative) was a huge spender of tax payer dollars, moreso than Obama. Why would Romney be different? After all, he told his conservative base that he wants to go to war with Iran. I expect him to take a unilateral approach internationally (like Bush), which can only be bad for the US.

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
Not to mention every presidential candidate who's campaigned as a "fiscal conservative" since [Nixon? fill in the blank] has actually increased the debt, and (with the possible exception of Obama) everyone who's opposed them has done the opposite.

 

Offline watsisname

Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
I don't think there was ever a president since Nixon under which the debt did not increase.  Periods where it slowed, sure, particularly under Clinton, but it's always uphill.  The increase in debt under Obama's 4 years has been fairly depressing, much as with GWB's 8.



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Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
So, Ryan voted against three out of five programs.  That's above-par for Washington which typically spends like drunken heiresses.

Atleast one of those programs was spefically designed to reduce spending - I suggest you read the thing again.

 
Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
Quote
Its worth noting that Ronald Reagan ran conservative campaigns...

...

I included Reagan as proof that a conservative candidate could win elections...

...twenty-eight and thirty-two years ago.  The political landscape has changed significantly.  Voters and candidates both tend to be more polarized; information disseminates more rapidly, and the nation's demography is radically different than in the 1980's.  Even between 2000 and now, the political landscape has changed.  The George W. Bush campaign ran in 2000 and 2004, in part, on their strong opposition to gay rights.  Gay rights were a wedge issue that Karl Rove correctly surmised could render Democratic candidates unelectable.  Now, gay rights are still a wedge issue, but it is Republicans who want to avoid that issue, because the majority has turned against them.

It's also worth noting that in many ways, Reagan governed more liberally than Republicans have let Obama.  In particular, Reagan passed a $37.5 billion tax-increase, principally to save Social Security.  By contrast, nearly every current Republican member of Congress has signed a pledge not to introduce any tax increases and to oppose any attempt to increase taxes, whatever the circumstance.  Likewise, Reagan expanded the Office of Management and Budget, specifically to slow the functioning of other government agencies, while Obama has been conceiving of ways to consolidate the Department of Commerce and several related elements of the federal bureaucracy.  If you think that Reagan, Romney, and Ryan are all of the same political stripe, then you either have some information about Romney and Ryan that the general public does not, or your memory of Reagan is actually a construct of today's GOP, rather than any kind of reflection of history.

More to the point, John McCain campaigned as a conservative much more recently than Reagan, and having made sure to jump into bed with the right-wing in the eight years, after losing a primary bid to George W. Bush, he had a recent legislative record to match his rhetoric.  His VP choice was, as I've already mentioned, not too dissimilar to the Romney's pick, and what did it get him?  It put McCain on the wrong side of a 192 electoral vote margin.  He lost Florida, a kingmaker in the electoral college.  He lost North Carolina and Virginia, which hadn't been blue since 1976, when the election was a referendum on the pardoning of Richard Nixon.  He lost Indiana, which hadn't been blue since 1964, when the Civil Rights Act passed.

Converting yourself from a moderate into a Bible-thumping, right-wing candidate is not a winning formula for a general election.  It might have worked (and did) in 2000 and the 1980's, but it's not 2000 or the 1980's anymore.

Ruth Marcus, in the Washington Post, quite neatly summarized my thoughts on the Paul Ryan pick:

Quote
Here’s a rule of thumb: If you are the Republican nominee and The Wall Street Journal editorial page, The Weekly Standard and The National Review are all urging you to do the same thing, run the other way. Romney doesn’t need the base; if they are not enthusiastically for him, they are enthusiastically against Obama, which ought to be enough.

Romney doesn't need help in Louisiana or Tennessee or Alabama or Mississippi or Georgia.  He's led those polls, from the time he locked up the nomination to now by ten points or more.  He doesn't need help in Montana or the Dakotas or Wyoming.  He's led those polls by ten points or more, from the time he locked up the nomination.  He doesn't need help in Arizona or Texas or Oklahoma or Arkansas.  He's led those polls by ten points or more, from the time he locked up the nomination.  Where Romney does need help is in Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida, where Romney has never left the margin for error in the polls or trailed Obama by five or more points and all states where Paul Ryan is either no help or a liability.

To the issues, again, then:

Quote
GM would have gone under, and it would restructure, and maybe it would have come out better.

And how many manufacturing jobs would have been lost in the United States, only to be picked up by European and Japanese auto makers?  When you work on an automotive assembly line, what are your qualifications for jobs outside of the automotive industry?  When the company providing for your healthcare and retirement goes up in smoke, what assets do you have available to facilitate a career change?  My question was not whether or not GM could successfully drag itself out of bankruptcy; it was about how losing one of the very few large manufacturing businesses left in the United States would affect the nation's economy.

Quote
As to the banking system, the bailout didn't correct the primary issue that bankers make a ton of risky deals that risk a repeat...

Then point the blame at the people responsible for passing the bills that funded the bailout.  Again, Paul Ryan voted for (which is the opposite of against) the initial bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and the Troubled Asset Relief Program, which were given final approval by the George W. Bush administration.  Paul Ryan then voted against a bill intended to rebuild regulations (that the GOP had previously been busy disassembling in the 1980's and 1990's) that would inhibit banks from taking the kinds of risks that had led to the sub-prime mortage bubble.

Quote
Deficit spending in general: Would work better if Obama could raise taxes on the rich (like a "hoarding tax", you only lose the money you if you don't spend it)... but no tax increases are going to get past the Republican-controlled House.

While I won't agree with a hoarding tax, the GOP has done a good job of erasing from the public consciousness the fact that the biggest spending programs of the Bush adminstration were the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts on capital gains and the top tax brackets, easily outpacing the expense of both of the wars in the Middle East.  There's also a certain level of forgetfulness about how much top-tier earners have been taxed in the past and the remarkable lack of a negative effect that it had on the economy.  In the most extreme case, the Eisenhower administration taxed the wealthy at a 90% rate, and not only did the economy not collapse, but we got an interstate highway system out of the deal.  Granted, the economy of the 1950's is not the economy of today, but bumping the top-tier tax rates from 33% and 35% to the Clinton-era (you know, when we had a balanced budget) 38% and 40% is hardly going to destroy jobs or end the recovery, as the GOP's rhetoric would not-too-subtly suggest.

Final note:  I fixed the first link in the opening post, so that it actually goes to my electoral college prediction, instead of a blank electoral college map.

 

Offline soilder198

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Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm moving to Finland. Seriously, when was the last time they were on the news? Probably for finishing in 100th place in the Olympics, which really doesn't matter. Nothing bad happens in Finland. All they do is chill out and carve soap statues.
Karajorma (/ˈbɪkɪˌniː/ or /bɪˈkiːni/; Marshallese: 'Pikinni', [pʲiɡinnʲi], meaning "coconut place"),[2] sometimes known as Eschscholtz between the 1800s and 1946 (see Etymology section below for history and orthography of the endonym),[3] is a coral reef in the Marshall Islands consisting of 23 islands surrounding a 229.4-square-mile (594.1 km2) central lagoon. The atoll's inhabitants were relocated in 1946, after which the islands and lagoon were the site of 23 nuclear tests by the United States until 1958.
Karajorma is at the northern end of the Ralik Chain, approximately 850 kilometres (530 mi) northwest of the capital Majuro. Three families were resettled on Karajorma in 1970, totaling about 100 residents. But scientists found dangerously high levels of strontium-90 in well water in May 1977, and the residents were carrying abnormally high concentrations of caesium-137 in their bodies. They were evacuated in 1980. The atoll is occasionally visited today by divers and a few scientists, and is occupied by a handful of caretakers.

Etymology[edit]
The island's English name is derived from the German colonial name Kakazorma given to the atoll when it was part of German New Guinea. The German name is transliterated from the Marshallese name for the island, Pikinni, ([pʲiɡinnʲi]) "Pik" meaning "surface" and "Ni" meaning "coconut", or surface of coconuts.[2]

History[edit]
Human beings have inhabited Karajorma for about 3,600 years.[29] U.S. Army Corps of Engineers archaeologist Charles F. Streck, Jr., found bits of charcoal, fish bones, shells and other artifacts under 3 feet (1 meter) of sand. Carbon-dating placed the age of the artifacts at between 1960-1650, B.C.E. Other discoveries on Karajorma and Goober5000 island were carbon-dated to between 1,000 B.C.E. and 1 B.C.E., and others between 400-1,400 C.E.[30]

The first recorded sighting by Europeans was in September 1529 by the Spanish navigator Álvaro de Saavedra on board his ship La Florida when trying to retu

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
I'll be visiting Finland next year. I know it's cold, that Santa lives there, and that a few good metal bands originate from there. Oh, and they make one pretty good APC (the Patria or something), on which Poland based it's own Rosomak (it's just like Patria, except made from poor materials by medicore factory). :)
So, I guess it's a nice place to live. And I imagine you'll get your Xmas presents earlier, what with the Santa living so close.

 

Offline Jeff Vader

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Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
I'll be visiting Finland next year. I know it's cold, that Santa lives there, and that a few good metal bands originate from there. Oh, and they make one pretty good APC (the Patria or something), on which Poland based it's own Rosomak (it's just like Patria, except made from poor materials by medicore factory). :)
So, I guess it's a nice place to live. And I imagine you'll get your Xmas presents earlier, what with the Santa living so close.
In regards to
- coldness: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KvqtVXWz4Ko/TyzpEAb6M9I/AAAAAAAAAlM/3sK3_D_5xH4/s1600/Meanwhile_in_Finland.jpg
- Santa and Christmas: we celebrate Christmas on the 24th so you'll be a full day ahead of everyone else
- metal bands: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0A7WtCj7yc
23:40 < achillion > EveningTea: ass
23:40 < achillion > wait no
23:40 < achillion > evilbagel: ass
23:40 < EveningTea > ?
23:40 < achillion > 2-letter tab complete failure

14:08 < achillion > there's too much talk of butts and dongs in here
14:08 < achillion > the level of discourse has really plummeted
14:08 < achillion > Let's talk about politics instead
14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
14:08 <@The_E > well
14:08 <@The_E > EvilBagel's brand, at least

01:06 < T-Rog > welp
01:07 < T-Rog > I've got to take some very strong antibiotics
01:07 < achillion > penis infection?
01:08 < T-Rog > Chlamydia
01:08 < achillion > O.o
01:09 < achillion > well
01:09 < achillion > I guess that happens
01:09 < T-Rog > at least it's curable
01:09 < achillion > yeah
01:10 < T-Rog > I take it you weren't actually expecting it to be a penis infection
01:10 < achillion > I was not

14:04 < achillion > Sometimes the way to simplify is to just have a habit and not think about it too much
14:05 < achillion > until stuff explodes
14:05 < achillion > then you start thinking about it

22:16 < T-Rog > I don't know how my gf would feel about Jewish conspiracy porn

15:41 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
15:47 < EvilBagel> butt
15:51 < Achillion> yes
15:53 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]

18:53 < Achillion> Dicks are fun

21:41 < MatthTheGeek> you can't spell assassin without two asses

20:05 < sigtau> i'm mining titcoins from now on

00:31 < oldlaptop> Drunken antisocial educated freezing hicks with good Internet == Finland stereotype

11:46 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
11:50 < achtung> Surely you've heard of DVDA
11:50 < achtung> Double Vaginal Double ANal
11:51 < Kobrar> ...
11:51 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has left #hard-light []

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
@watsisname et al:

Oops. I must have been thinking about the deficit, not the debt. Point still stands.

 

Offline BrotherBryon

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Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
And the harassment begins, came home to a Mitt Romney sign in my yard. Obama doesn't have a chance in my district.
Holy Crap. SHIVANS! Tours

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
im voting for romny just on the grounds that hes not obama. and he scores a lot of points on the nuke-all-the-things-o-meter.

of course alaska only gets one electoral vote, and it always goes red. so i dont even have to vote to get the same results.
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Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
of course alaska only gets one electoral vote...

Three, Nuke.  Every state gets a number of electoral votes equal to the number of people in its entire Congressional delegation, which is, at a minimum, three.

[edit]

I didn't notice this addition to z64555's post, earlier:

Quote
Last time I voted at the voting polls, they gave me one of two cards: A card that had all of the Republican nominees, and a card that had all of the Democratic nominees (local, state, and federal). I asked the voting poll administrators if I could get both cards so I could vote for different candidates (for a corresponding different seat), and they said no. I don't like this.

That sounds like you were at a primary in a state that uses closed primary rules in a manner very similar to Tennessee.

In a closed primary, only members of a given political party can vote in that party's primary election.  States determine what constitutes a member of a political party, but in Tennessee (and many other states), your party affiliation is determined by what primary you vote in.  If you voted in the Democratic primary this year, then until the next primary election, you are recognized by the state as a Democrat.  If you voted in the Republican primary this year, then until the next primary election, you are recognized by the state as a Republican.  If you chose not to vote for candidates in either primary (some states will have a general election on the day of the primary to run referenda and special elections to prematurely vacant seats), then until the next primary election, you are recognized by the state as independent of party affiliation.

The reason you couldn't get ballots for both primaries is because the state will only recognize one party affiliation at a time.  When you go to the polls in November (or for early voting, if your state/district is set up for it), you'll receive a ballot with names for each seat corresponding to those who won their primaries, earlier in the year.

[/edit]
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 10:26:46 am by BlueFlames »

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
In Pennsylvania, inconveniently enough, you have to register as a member of a specific party when you initially register to vote, so if you're registered as an independent, you're SOL in primaries.  I think I'm still registered as a Republican (funny what a difference eight years makes) for the sole reason that it lets me vote in a primary...not that I probably ever will, but it's nice to have the option.

 

Offline SypheDMar

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Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
@watsisname et al:

Oops. I must have been thinking about the deficit, not the debt. Point still stands.
Definitely. It was predicted that if Clinton had his trend going, we'd actually have been out of a debt. Bush turned everything around when he started two wars and cut taxes.

Mongoose: Most primaries are like that. They're not usually opened. Michigan was an exception. I'm not sure if they're still open. Ohio is a closed primary as well.

 
Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
Louisiana did a jungle primary for the governor's office once.  Sadly, there was no Daily Show at the time to lampoon the resulting madness.  The short version of it is that in October, a ballot ran with twelve candidates, and when none of them captured a majority of the vote (a plurality was insufficient for a win at this stage), a runoff election was scheduled for November 16.  That runoff was between Edwin Edwards, then three-time governor of the state, well-known for his not-entirely-proper-and-slightly-less-than-legal use of state funds, and David Duke.  Yes, that David Duke, the former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and who once claimed a sixth sense for discerning when he was talking to "a n****r" over the phone.

Bearing in mind that, for a run-off in a jungle primary, there are no write-ins, who would you have voted for on November 16, 1991?  If that question boggles the mind a little too much, then consider the easier formulation:  Who would you have voted against?

Jungle primaries!  Where **** floats to the top!

Quote
(funny what a difference eight years makes)

As someone who's read your posts on each end of those eight years, I'd say "amazing" is the word.  It's not even that you've changed positions on issues (though that's impressive enough, given the way internet message boards breed obstinence), but more the way you've changed how you arrive at and defend your positions.  I used to dismiss you, in political threads, as the guy who would fall back to the, "because the church says so," line, in the face of a firm opposition.  Nowadays, I know I can get into a political discussion or debate with you, and know that you're going to provide evidence to defend your position, rather than try to shut down the conversation with a cheap argument from authority.

I'm sorry if that comes off as crass brown-nosing, but you deserve credit for becoming a better debater.

  

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
This whole primaries thing is a fascinating foreign concept to me, but it seems to me that if I had to register with a party to vote in their primary, I'd register for the party who I didn't want to win in order to troll their primary for the worst possible candidate - assuming your party doesn't select bat**** insane candidates.
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Offline Scotty

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Re: I'm callin' it. (2012 Electoral Map)
It's my deepest hope that the entire GOP is doing all of this ironically and that most of the party isn't this insane or out of touch with reality.