[mjn.mixael]

Apple, Samsung, Innovation, Patents.

Discuss.

Link.

[Ghostavo]

The verdict came out rather fast... anyway, I'm sort of disappointed by the Apple victory since it makes simply drawing a freaking phone without infringing on the supposed trade dress a challenge.

[Nuke]

nuke the patent office!

[SypheDMar]

I really hope that Samsung appeals and that a higher court overturn the decision.

[TwentyPercentCooler]

The verdict in favor of Apple is ridiculous, and I hope it gets overturned. It's almost as bad as a court awarding a car company a patent on round wheels and making the other car companies make do with other shapes.

[HAZARDLEADER]

Apple took it a little to far. IPHONES FOR THE WIN, screw all the others. 

[jr2]

it’s hard to imagine that nothing but the iPhone and iPad will have scroll-bounce, pinch-to-zoom, and tap-to-zoom, the features targeted in the case,

...da fuq?  OK, that's UI features there, not the entire GUI.  Nobody is allowed to pinch or tap to zoom?  For serious?  Guess we're all stuck with sliders or buttons.  Something just isn't right here.  That would be like M$ patenting Application Menus (File, Edit, View...) back when Win3.1 and Apple were just starting out... actually, DOS programs even had those.  If that had happened, Apple users would all be stuck with keyboard commands, if patents like this are allowed.

EDIT: Or, for that matter, the mouse cursor... or any type of pointer based input.  If M$ had patented trackballs and mice, that leaves touchpad and trackpoint for Apple.

I think it boils down to Apple being afraid of having to compete.  They were the best.  Now someone else is getting close.  Rather than improving, or dropping their whopping prices, they simply try to take the competition out of the game through the courts so they can continue enjoying their spot at the top without having to work for it (not discounting the work they did before, just saying they don't want to continue to innovate and compete.  They want to feed).

[Bobboau]

fortunately the mouse, windows menus, ect were invented by Xerox, who considered them worthless and so didn't patent them.

the judge in the case threw all of Samsung's evidence out at the beginning of the trial for no good reason, so all of this including the appeal are totally expected.

[jr2]

Yeah, there was a book published, Fumbling the Future: How Xerox Invented, then Ignored, the First Personal Computer... I've heard of it, but haven't ever had the chance to get the book and sit down and read it.  So, we should, by rights, be supporting a monolithic Xerox empire held up by a bunch of stupid patents.

Here's a thought, if someone invents something, even if it's common knowledge, can't someone else patent it if the original inventor didn't?   (A quick Googling doesn't seem to negate the idea.)  I'm pretty sure that can happen.  So why didn't MS or Apple patent all of this stuff (UI elements, input methods, etc).  Heck, has anyone patented the keyboard?

We should go patent all of this stuff, and then demand exorbitant amounts of money. 

EDIT: Good discussion on both sides can be read here:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4426098

EDIT2: And the registration process is amazing... enter user / pass in register field and click submit.  End of line!  I love it.

[The E]

Common knowledge, in general, is not patentable. In order to be eligible for a patent, an innovation needs to be, well, innovative. "Transporting Water by way of cylindrical devices which are closed off on one end" is not patentable, for example.

[jr2]

Hmm, found this:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=151312&cid=12701745

by John Carmack (101025) on Thursday June 02 2005, @12:07AM (#12701745)
I'm proud that there is "a relative dearth of patent applications for the video game industry, especially considering how technology-dependent the video game industry is, and given its size in terms of annual sales."

Before issuing a condemnation, I try hard to think about it from their point of view -- the laws of the land set the rules of the game, and lawyers are deeply confused at why some of us aren't using all the tools that the game gives us.

Patents are usually discussed in the context of someone "stealing" an idea from the long suffering lone inventor that devoted his life to creating this one brilliant idea, blah blah blah.

But in the majority of cases in software, patents effect independent invention. Get a dozen sharp programmers together, give them all a hard problem to work on, and a bunch of them will come up with solutions that would probably be patentable, and be similar enough that the first programmer to file the patent could sue the others for patent infringement.

Why should society reward that? What benefit does it bring? It doesn't help bring more, better, or cheaper products to market. Those all come from competition, not arbitrary monopolies. The programmer that filed the patent didn't work any harder because a patent might be available, solving the problem was his job and he had to do it anyway. Getting a patent is uncorrelated to any positive attributes, and just serves to allow either money or wasted effort to be extorted from generally unsuspecting and innocent people or companies.

Yes, it is a legal tool that may help you against your competitors, but I'll have no part of it. Its basically mugging someone.

I could waste hours going on about this. I really need to just write a position paper some day that I can cut and paste when this topic comes up.

John Carmack

[Klaustrophobia]

maybe it's different in the computer world, but i've had numerous professors and teachers who spent a LONG time in industry previously tell me that getting around a patent is so stupidly easy that their only real worth is as a resume line for the awardee. 

[Ghostavo]

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2012082510525390

It seems the jurors ****ed up some things in their rulings... like awarding damages for devices they found did not infringe.

[Ghostavo]

Another lawsuit


Oh, and...
 

[karajorma]

I suppose that's the downside of Apple's attempts to claim that Samsung is infringing.

[Veers]

Well..., I'll still buy Samsung. Even if I have to walk to the factory myself to purchase any of their products..

Don't get me wrong. I've used both phones, and have many friends using them. I just prefer Samsung, and Android.

But that, is one very awesome ad 

[TwentyPercentCooler]

Apple Lawyer 1: "Samsung is making better phones than we are. We have to find a way to stop them!"
Naive Intern: "Why don't we just...y'know, innovate? Make an even better product?"
Apple Lawyer Corps: *hysterical laughter*
Apple Lawyer 2: "Nah, let's just sue them, claim all kinds of infringement. With all the patents we bribed out of the patent office, we can send them back to the smartphone stone age."
Apple Lawyer 1: "Brilliant!" *twirls mustache*

[jr2]

[Bobboau]

sitting in front of xerox computers most likely.

[MP-Ryan]

This whole court case is indicative of how far patents/copyright law has gone off the rails.  Seriously, a patent on rectangular devices with rounded corners?  **** off.

Also, juries have no place in deciding patent cases.  The average person has nowhere near the technical or legal experience to render a judgement, as the article linked above quite obviously shows.