[Thaeris]

Maybe and maybe not. I may disagree on you with matters on some points, or we may arrive at a misunderstanding. On the prior note of drone surveilance, note that I first responded to z64555 with my distaste for domestic military-grade drones, and your response was possibly more global in scale than my response to it was...

...but does our disagreement lead me to the conclusion that you're a "dick?" Hell no, in fact, I know you to be a rather upstanding person from all prior observations of your posts. "All people are awful" is the first, worst, sweeping generalization you can make.

Governmentally, the natural counter to this is a working legal system. Ours does not seem to be working well at all at this station in time. If the 11th Amendment was exercised properly, so many of the complaints I've issued in this thread would never have come to pass, because those laws would have been ruled Unconstitutional. If your legal system is broken and corrupt, the task of fighting corruption, which is the heart of the problem, becomes nearly insurmountable. But you can at least make an attempt at educated voting.

[General Battuta]

Here is a lengthy article on why you shouldn't vote for Obama or Romney http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/09/why-i-refuse-to-vote-for-barack-obama/262861/

[z64555]

Also, **** drones, Z. A Cessna and an observer team in most every instance is cheaper than a military-grade drone. Your police department certainly doesn't need drones that can fire tear gas with the assistance of a fire control computer.

It's not about unit cost it's about logistics. In order to get a Cessna or a helicopter moving you have to get everything prepped at the nearest airport, whereas with most smaller drones all you need is consent from the FAA (or equivalent) an a place big enough for the drone to takeoff and land (which, is WAY smaller than either a Cessna or helicopter).

For large areas and extended observation, Cessnas/helicopters may be a better choice, but again it takes a bit of time for them to deploy unless they're always on standby.

[Aardwolf]

@Thaeris & z64555: why does it have to be a military-grade drone?

@General Battuta: I don't understand what this "I'm not going to vote for the lesser of two evils" attitude is supposed to accomplish. Voting for a third-party candidate won't win them the election, if anything it risks giving the lead to the "greater of two evils"... Is "sending a message" worth that?

[z64555]

@Thaeris & z64555: why does it have to be a military-grade drone?

It doesn't. Although the general consense is that "Anything made by the military is teh ****," and also the fact that many politicians (I'm referring to acquisitions boards) have no clue and/or don't want to put a lot of effort into buying commercial-grade stuff... and also the fact that there is not that many "well known" drone manufacturers and resellers just yet... because it's still a young market.

[swashmebuckle]

@General Battuta: I don't understand what this "I'm not going to vote for the lesser of two evils" attitude is supposed to accomplish. Voting for a third-party candidate won't win them the election, if anything it risks giving the lead to the "greater of two evils"... Is "sending a message" worth that?

I find the writer's argument immediately persuasive, but yeah, Nader in Florida.  It's sad to vote for someone you don't really believe in, but until we get something like the alternative vote, them's the breaks.

[Dragon]

a place big enough for the drone to takeoff and land (which, is WAY smaller than either a Cessna or helicopter).

Depends on the Drone, actually. A Littlebird needs much less area for takeoff than a Predator. Unless they have a launch catapult (like the Russian Phela recon drone), fixed wing UAVs still need plenty of room for takeoff. Unmanned helos, just like manned ones, will land and takeoff from any area big enough for them to stand in.

[Scotty]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean.  Sure, there are some drones that actually need runway space.  There are also drones that you can throw into a light breeze from your hand and they'll take flight.

[Dragon]

The smallest drones can't really take much payload though, limiting their equipment and endurance. My point was, the logistics of big drones aren't much different from the comparable manned aircraft, and manned helos don't really need an airport to operate, just like drone helos.

[z64555]

The smallest drones can't really take much payload though, limiting their equipment and endurance. My point was, the logistics of big drones aren't much different from the comparable manned aircraft, and manned helos don't really need an airport to operate, just like drone helos.

Well if all your doing is recon, you don't really need more than 1~5Kg of payload, hence, you can use a small/medium sized drone for that purpose.

[Aardwolf]

So here's an idea: re-elect Obama, since he's the better of the two electable candidates. Then impeach him. Also, go back in time and impeach Bush II, because what he did was just as bad if not worse.

[Thaeris]

An interview with Gary Johnson on C-Span:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/JohnsonL

[MP-Ryan]

Here is a lengthy article on why you shouldn't vote for Obama or Romney http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/09/why-i-refuse-to-vote-for-barack-obama/262861/

1.  Cast third party protest vote.
2. Smug satisfaction, right up until...
3.  Romney wins election and US is stuck with psychotic GOP for four years.

Great plan, that one.

[General Battuta]

It's cool, Obama's going to win. (i am also voting for him)

I find the argument ethically appealing on some level but tactically unacceptable.

[Aardwolf]

So here's an idea: re-elect Obama, since he's the better of the two electable candidates. Then impeach him. Also, go back in time and impeach Bush II, because what he did was just as bad if not worse.

* Aardwolf  feels ignored.

Edit: holy crap, this was their plan all along! Not impeachment, but this: I remember hearing back in 2010 or such, that the Republicans' plan was to make people feel dissatisfied with the ineffectiveness of congress, and then somehow that would translate into the "anti-government" tea-party candidates getting elected...

But it seems like basically the same thing is going on with the presidential candidates... make people dislike both parties, so they vote third-party and the Republicans win.




But more importantly, impeachment!

[perihelion]

It's cool, Obama's going to win. (i am also voting for him)

I find the argument ethically appealing on some level but tactically unacceptable.

If you are in a swing state, I suppose that is an ethical dilemma you are stuck with.  Me, I live in Texas.  It doesn't matter one iota whether I vote red, blue, or that obscene shade of turquoise they use in hospitals; Texas is going to vote red.  Period.  My vote isn't worth the gas I spend to get to the poling station.  So, I can vote, "A plague o' both your houses!" with equal amounts of impunity and impotence.

[SpardaSon21]

My state of California is bluer than a drowning victim, so no way will voting for either Romney or Obama actually change a single vote in the Electoral College.

[Thaeris]

Have some ideas worth spreading.

[Thaeris]

Holy crap, Jill Stein was arrested...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/16/hofstra-debate-jill-stein-arrested-green-party_n_1971960.html

I never was much invested in the Green Party, but I have to hand it to Jill for opposing the crap that is the FEC.

[Ulala]

Wow. They're really determined to keep third party candidates out. Maybe they're noticing people like Jill Stein, and to a greater extent, Gary Johnson, are gaining traction online. Maybe it won't take total economic collapse before the American people will mobilize against the corruption after all. On the other hand, the complacent and the brainwashed will still vote for Obamney and we'll just get 4 more years of the same bull****.

I voted for Johnson, and asked everyone I knew to consider doing the same. The argument that "it's a waste of a vote" or "one less vote for the lesser of two evils" completely self defeats the purpose of the vote... not only that, you're buying into exactly what a corrupt government like ours wants you to believe. Instead of buying that bs, I voted for who I think would be best for the job, and if everyone else did the same, I think the election would have surprising results. It's a shame people don't even know about guys like Gary Johnson, though unsurprising when the Commission on Presidential Debates is run by a Democrat and a Republican. Corruption abounds, it would seem.

* Ulala puts on a helmet and awaits the meltdown.