Author Topic: Ancient Papyrus mentions Jesus' wife... (?)  (Read 4541 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
Re: Ancient Papyrus mentions Jesus' wife... (?)
Since this thread seems to be mostly for the funnies, I deem no harm in posting this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8-8WJxA-cI
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline yuezhi

  • no u
  • 29
  • ¿¡you dare defy the commodore‽
Re: Ancient Papyrus mentions Jesus' wife... (?)
JEWS IN SPAAAAAAACE!
i will watch the full version of this before iron sky.
ϟIn Neo-Terra we Trustϟ
ϟGreat Tin Can Run (Download
☭Gods and Conquerors  - mission design, tech descriptions, sounds; currently 5% Book of Invasions(reserved)☭


░░░░░░███████ ]▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄        ︻╦╤─   Bob is building an army.
    ▂▄▅█████████▅▄▃▂          ☻/         This tank & Bob are against Google+
Il███████████████████].       /▌          Copy and Paste this all over
  ◥⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙◤...     / \          Youtube if you are with us!

 

Offline AtomicClucker

  • 28
  • Runnin' from Trebs
Re: Ancient Papyrus mentions Jesus' wife... (?)
Since this thread seems to be mostly for the funnies, I deem no harm in posting this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8-8WJxA-cI

Hahaha.

Just don't let the Trolls on the FreeThought blogs get a whiff of it :P
Blame Blue Planet for my Freespace2 addiction.

 

Offline jr2

  • The Mail Man
  • 212
  • It's prounounced jayartoo 0x6A7232
    • Steam
Re: Ancient Papyrus mentions Jesus' wife... (?)
not concrete, at least yet, but the beginning of questions. Even the peer-reviewed journal at Harvard said they haven't committed to publishing until more tests are done, specifically, the ink, to see when this was written.

Granted, ofc the Vatican doesn't agree, but taken in the larger context of experts, right now it's all just premature hype.

m.newser.com/article/da1ib8404/vatican-paper-weighs-in-on-jesus-wife-papyrus-declares-it-a-fake-faults-harvard.html

By NICOLE WINFIELD | ASSOCIATED PRESS | Sep 27, 2012 3:16 PM CDT

The Vatican newspaper has added to the doubts surrounding Harvard University's claim that a 4th century Coptic papyrus fragment showed that some early Christians believed that Jesus was married, declaring it a "fake."

The newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, published an article Thursday by leading Coptic scholar Alberto Camplani and an accompanying editorial by the newspaper's editor, Giovanni Maria Vian, an expert in early Christianity. They both cited concerns expressed by other scholars about the fragment's authenticity and the fact that it was purchased on the market without a known archaeological provenance.

"At any rate, a fake," Vian entitled his editorial, which criticized Harvard for creating a "clamorous" media frenzy over the fragment by handing the scoop to two U.S. newspapers only to see "specialists immediately question it."

Karen King, a professor of early Christianity at Harvard Divinity School, announced the finding last week at an international congress on Coptic studies in Rome. The text, written in Coptic and probably translated from a 2nd century Greek text, contains a dialogue in which Jesus refers to "my wife," whom he identifies as Mary.

The issue has had resonance since Christian tradition has long held that Jesus was unmarried, and any evidence to the contrary would fuel current debates about celibacy for priests and the role of women in the church.

As such, it's not surprising that the Vatican would challenge the claim.

King has said the fragment doesn't prove Jesus was married, only that some early Christians thought he was. She has acknowledged the doubts raised by her colleagues and says the fragment's ink will be tested to help determine when it was written.

Some scholars attending the conference questioned the authenticity of the fragment, noting its form and grammar looked unconvincing and suspicious. Others said it was impossible to deduce the meaning of it given the fragmented nature of the script.

Camplani, a professor at Rome's La Sapienza university who helped organize the conference, cited those concerns and added his own, specifically over King's interpretation of the text _ assuming it is real.

Rather than taking the reference to a wife literally, he wrote, scholars routinely take such references in primitive Christian and biblical literature metaphorically, to symbolize the spiritual union between Jesus and his disciples.

The absence of any reference to Jesus being married in historic documents "seems more significant than the literal interpretation of a few expressions from the new text, which by my reading should be understood purely in a symbolic sense," he wrote.

Camplani nevertheless praised King's academic paper on the subject as scientific and objective.

In its announcement about the discovery, Harvard said the paper would be published in January in the Harvard Theological Review, a peer-reviewed journal. The journal later said it hadn't committed to publication and would await testing on the fragment's ink to help determine its authenticity.

___

Follow Nicole Winfield at www.twitter.com/nwinfield




 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: Ancient Papyrus mentions Jesus' wife... (?)
Hit the snooze button...

 

Offline Wobble73

  • 210
  • Reality is for people with no imagination
    • Steam
Re: Ancient Papyrus mentions Jesus' wife... (?)
I think it's been pretty well established that there existed a philosopher near the beginning of the 1st century who got crucified by Romans who didn't like his philosophy. I've heard about documents which mention that the same philosopher visited India at some point of time, and spent some time in a Buddhist monastery.

And there is speculation that he may have even visited England to study Link
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
Early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese
Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy.
 
Member of the Scooby Doo Fanclub. And we're not talking a cartoon dog here people!!

 You would be well adviced to question the wisdom of older forumites, we all have our preferences and perversions

 

Offline Solatar

  • 211
Re: Ancient Papyrus mentions Jesus' wife... (?)
There are also texts (honestly can't remember off-hand which ones, probably from Gospel of X, where X =/= Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John) that claim the Jewish God was essentially the crippled Hephaestus of some greater pantheon who threw an anti-social temper tantrum.  He didn't know what he was doing, because he sucked, so the world was imperfect and full of death, but he convinced the poor sobs in Israel that he was the only God anyway.  Jesus is the messenger sent from the real gods, to help humans reach enlightenment and escape their bodily prisons.  God left human Jesus before he died, hence why he yells "my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?".

Point is (and Karen King will be the first to say this, and has), this only proves - maybe - that a group of people in 4th century Egypt believed Jesus had a wife, which is plenty interesting in its own right.  Early Christian history isn't quite as far fetched or exciting as a Dan Brown novel, but plenty of groups with non-orthodox views existed well into Late Antiquity (I'm thinking especially of the 6th century Ostrogoths, who had a distinct Arian Church hierarchy in Rome/Italy).  On the other hand, if the document turns out to be legitimate, I'm actually really interested to hear/read/see Dr. King's analysis*, because I'm not sure if she'd waste her time on it if it was just another random gnostic text, unless the media just went crazy over her research and she's riding the waves of excitement.

*if anybody somehow has a link to the conference paper or research she presented with it, that would be REALLY useful in determining the worth.  Unfortunately, looks like January before it'll be snaggable on jstor.

Also, to contribute to the real purpose of the thread  :D

Where's Sandwich when you need him?

 

Offline Mongoose

  • Rikki-Tikki-Tavi
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
  • This brain for rent.
    • Steam
    • Something
Re: Ancient Papyrus mentions Jesus' wife... (?)
I guess what amuses me the most about this whole story is that the fragment ends literally just before the rest of the sentence that could have given things greater context.  I mean, maybe it really was cut off there, but it seems pretty damn convenient. :D

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Ancient Papyrus mentions Jesus' wife... (?)
There is no way Jesus wasn't involved in some heavy duty horizontal fracking.