Poll

Do you like HomeWorld 2?

Home World 1 is better then this
15 (38.5%)
I don't like it!
0 (0%)
Sort of
0 (0%)
I like it!
11 (28.2%)
I LOVE IT!!!
11 (28.2%)
Home World 2 is better then Home World 1!
2 (5.1%)

Total Members Voted: 39

Voting closed: March 04, 2013, 07:41:11 pm

Author Topic: Homeworld 2  (Read 9633 times)

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Offline Ghostavo

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Gameplay-wise, supply limit encouraged just building one thing and nothing else, whereas HW1 and 2 had limits on each class type, encouraging diversification.

Although I agree with you that the game encouraged you to build a certain setup, I don't agree with the reason you give. Supply limits do not encourage this, but rather a lack of synergy between certain ships.

I'd much rather have a fixed supply limit than a limit for each ship class. It's one thing to encourage diversification, another altogether is to force the player to diversify.

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HW2, despite its failings, was much more faithful to HW1's gameplay, theme, and atmosphere than Cata ever was.  Which is why I say Cata is decent as a standalone.

So the HW that wasn't made by Relic and has what can be said to be a side story (it doesn't follow S'jet) is different from the other HWs? You don't say? :P

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I could go on, but I've had this conversation so much over the years I've gotten tired of it.  Have a search through the Homeworld series forums at Relicnews if you want to see.

I'm sure we could see good points there, but it's not really the most unbiased place. It is after all the forums for Relic's games fans.
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Offline Luis Dias

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I would've loved to see the Cata storyline incorporated in HW2 though.
I'm glad that didn't happen.  Cata would have been miles better if it had built on the Ghost Ship from HW1's Sea of Lost Souls instead of introducing a silly organic version of the Borg.

Oh, and let's not forget that a kiith of miners has loads of fancy tech that no one else has.  And the Bentusi became hateful towards anyone who wasn't part of their buddy club.  Gameplay-wise, supply limit encouraged just building one thing and nothing else, whereas HW1 and 2 had limits on each class type, encouraging diversification.  Energy cannons completely ****ed over the capship-fighter dynamic.  HW2, despite its failings, was much more faithful to HW1's gameplay, theme, and atmosphere than Cata ever was.  Which is why I say Cata is decent as a standalone.

I could go on, but I've had this conversation so much over the years I've gotten tired of it.  Have a search through the Homeworld series forums at Relicnews if you want to see.


As an aside, I gave up modding HW2 for exactly the same reason Matth did.


Yeah, I don't think Cata is the "same game" as the other ones, but I find your recommendations... bad. The story of Cata has multiple dimensions to it, one of it being how a very minor Miner ship is slowly able to upgrade itself to an amazing fleet, albeit the only reason that drove them was to repair the damage they unleashed on the galaxy. You never expect too much out of a miner fleet, and increasingly you have the whole galaxy's destiny on your hands. This crescendo is something that the other games just failed at. HW2, for instance, is a complete **** up in its crescendo to an anticlimatic and boring endgame. (So you had to get this amazing never-heard-before ship capable of outstanding things, using three almost metaphysical "cores" so that you are able to destroy three bomber ships? Really.). The fact that the Bentusi get the **** on their pants is really fun to watch and terrifying at the same time. You do get to wonder what terror makes these amazing species go insane like this? The moral battle you end up having with them is emotional and fitting.

While the other HW games had this "cosmic vibe", Cata went for full blown Lovecraft and the Lacanian real (and how that affects the joyful characters of HW). I was blown away by the story, while I was completely underwhelmed by HW2's. Although, to be fair, I spent a looooot more of my time in HW2 "gameplay" (specially in multiplayer).

 

Offline Aesaar

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What recommendations?  The only one I made was about the ghost ship, which was far more interesting than The Thing IN SPACE!  The Beast was very, very boring.

A fan of Cata has no place calling HW2 out on superweapons.  Siege Cannon, Super Acolytes, infection beams.  Oh, and energy shields, because a 3000 year old empire never developed them, but our clan of lowly miners can!  Missile-armed fighters?  Just the miners!  No, you'll forgive me if I find the idea that a bunch of miners somehow developed all that fancy super-advanced tech completely unbelievable, because it makes no sense whatsoever. 

And the behavior of the Bentusi wasn't just terrified, it was completely different from what they were in HW1.  They weren't Bentusi, they were "more advanced race #45106" flying Bentusi ships.  That's what I dislike about Cata.  It pays lip service to Homeworld and nothing more.  Change the names and they have nothing in common but the ships.  HW2, despite its failings (which are many), still feels like Homeworld.


I'm sure we could see good points there, but it's not really the most unbiased place. It is after all the forums for Relic's games fans.
Given that Relicnews is the biggest HW community on the internet (how sad that is), you can bet that there's a lot of Cata fans there.  Or there was, back in the day.  Not many HW fans at all these days.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 09:02:43 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline crizza

  • 210
Anyone of you ever read the Legacie series on the relic boards?
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?56553-Homeworld-Legacies&highlight=legacies

Guess Aesaar will put a gun at his head^^
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Offline Aesaar

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I've read it, but (brace yourselves) I'm not that fond of it.  I much prefer Norsehound's work.

 

Offline crizza

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Yeah, I read both of 'em and I liked them.
A shame their projects are finished or discontinued.
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Offline General Battuta

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The thing I think HWC did way better than HW2 storywise is the fact that it retained HW1's key element - the sense that you built yourself up from a weak little nobody into a real contender.

I got to work a bit with Norsehound on the Point Defense Systems mod before the insane mod leader drove us both away, he was very cool.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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What recommendations?  The only one I made was about the ghost ship, which was far more interesting than The Thing IN SPACE!  The Beast was very, very boring.

I can't see how on earth that would be an improvement, Aesaar. And I enjoy "The Thing" quite a lot. Specially the fact that it is mostly our fault that we're disseminating this "unbound" creature on the galaxy.

Quote
A fan of Cata has no place calling HW2 out on superweapons.  Siege Cannon, Super Acolytes, infection beams.  Oh, and energy shields, because a 3000 year old empire never developed them, but our clan of lowly miners can!  Missile-armed fighters?  Just the miners!  No, you'll forgive me if I find the idea that a bunch of miners somehow developed all that fancy super-advanced tech completely unbelievable, because it makes no sense whatsoever.

Ahaha, I'm sorry I couldn't disagree more. You see, not a single "superweapon" in Cata was metaphysical and worshipped. Instead, it was seen as a completely materialistic and pragmatic solutions, scrapping things we find out and so on (in a space mad max style) in order to get the thing killed (nevermind the help that the Bentusi had to give to make it work at all). HW2 was all about these metaphysical "cores" that would get us into the center of the frakkin galaxy to get the "ultimate" weapon. I have no issues with "ultimate weapons", but after all that climatic hype, you get to defend your home planet against three bomber destroyers? Really. What a massive anticlimatic BS. It was clear from some point in the narrative that the writers just didn't know what to do next.

About the "missile armed fighters", I really don't see your point. We are discussing a fictional universe where all you need are blueprints of the things you want to build and a factory to do so (and materials). The only thing that really made me smile in smug contempt was the fact that all these ships were manned, and despite all the losses you took, you still had plenty of human resources to ship all those bombers and cruisers and dreadnoughts. But that wasn't a problem of Cata alone, so there.

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And the behavior of the Bentusi wasn't just terrified, it was completely different from what they were in HW1.  They weren't Bentusi, they were "more advanced race #45106" flying Bentusi ships.  That's what I dislike about Cata.  It pays lip service to Homeworld and nothing more.  Change the names and they have nothing in common but the ships.  HW2, despite its failings (which are many), still feels like Homeworld.

Yes, it was "different", in the sense that this Thing freaked them out. That's it. And that's the surprise of the story. I am at *pains* to read things like you are here, Aesaar. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Kinda agree with Luis here.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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Offline Aesaar

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I can't see how on earth that would be an improvement, Aesaar. And I enjoy "The Thing" quite a lot. Specially the fact that it is mostly our fault that we're disseminating this "unbound" creature on the galaxy.
"Unbound", by Cata's definition, is only people who have been plugged into their ships like Karan, which directly contradicts HW1, but w/e.  New asshole Bentusi don't give a ****.

If there aren't missiles on fighters already, then there's a reason for why.  Conveniently, the HW1 manual provides that reason: missiles that would fit on a fighter aren't fast enough or powerful enough to be useful again fighters (p.14, if you want to check for yourself).  Notice how the missiles on Turanic missile corvettes kinda really sucked in HW1?  But these miners managed to do it.  Yep.  It's a wonder they're miners, given that they possess greater R&D capabilities than either Kiith Sjet or the Taiidan Empire.

I like HW2's metaphysical aspect.  I actually think it was one of its strengths.  I will agree that the last mission sucked, though.  Total rushjob, that finale.

Like every discussion I've had about Cata, I don't think we'll get anywhere.  I'm really sick of the entire HW2 vs Cata discussion in general, so I'm out.  :)

Should just get Blackbird Interactive to reboot the series from the ground up.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 11:19:37 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Yeah, you ragequitter you :D. While I see your point about missiles being slow and so on wrt what the "manual" of HW1 says, I really don't take that kind of **** that seriously. But I understand that it might annoy people who do.
Peace.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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The Beazst could totally raep the Kadeshi! and Cata Bentusi > HW2 Harbourship:pimp:
now that the deliverately joking trolly stuff is out of the way.

I do so love the feel of Cata, bleak and grim.....Overall, that's what it put accross. HW2 is also equally good.
HW1 remains my favourite.

Raiders retreat is by far the best game of all the series though.

 
Voted HW 1.

Homeworld 2 just took a few missions to convince the player there's no big @$$ trip to no one knows where, but a more/less regular RTS- the enemies come with bigger ships, they come with more ships, but there's no real change in their quality- no surprising mysterious enemy that happens to be floating around and the Hiigarans bump into...
Well, there are these Progenitor drone guys, but they get solved the mission after they're met, and that's all...

What about finding out that the drones killed the Progenitors and the Bentusi are all that survived?
And after the 10 missions of trying to save the world from the drones, Higaara is lost and it's back to square one- a totally burned out square one with a wrecked Scaffold orbiting it....

Nothing like the Ghost Ship in HW 2, no "Kharak is burning" and as such we're all going to die (also nothing on crews of captured ships not surviving interrogation just a minute later).
No surprises such as meeting some bad dudes and accidentally having a war with them only to find out they're us, or at least used to be somewhere in the past...
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Story, Ships, Weapons, Project Leader.

 
Overall, I'd say I prefered HW1 to HWC, which I prefered over HW2. Also, I can't remember what HW1's definition of "Unbound" was? People without planet? Exiled?

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missiles that would fit on a fighter aren't fast enough or powerful enough to be useful again fighters
I'd like to point out that acolyte missiles suck balls against fighters. They are better used for anti-capship duty.
But yeah, I see your point about the fancy tech and the different balance in fighter/corvette/frigate/capship combat. Fighters and corvettes could do jack-**** against energy guns and multibeam frigates.

Also: space-zombi-horror-thingy.

 

Offline Gray113

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Gameplay in homeworld 2 was better. The game rewards you for having a decent fighter/bomber compliment right up till the last mission which allowed for a lot of variety to strategies.

The plot in homeworld was far better though - the second game was nonsensical at times.

 

Offline FireSpawn

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Gameplay in homeworld 2 was better. The game rewards you for having a decent fighter/bomber compliment right up till the last mission which allowed for a lot of variety to strategies.

The plot in homeworld was far better though - the second game was nonsensical at times.

Petty much what I was going to say. But Cataclysm had by far the best atmosphere (irony!) of them all.
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I played HW:C already knowing about the Beast, and it was still surprising when it appeared (as in I didn't expect it to come when it came, and in the form of that [spoiler censored out]...).
All in all C was pretty good.

As for the gameplay, HW 2 came with subsystems that could be destroyed, less rock/paper/scissors (even a BC had some point defense weapons that actually worked) and a few other goodies, but like I wrote before, the only real trip into the unknown was when the Keeper woke up and then showed the finger when it got damaged a bit.

All 3 had some good music.
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Er, the rock-paper-scissors in HW2 was far more rigid than in HW. It even had a list of X beats Y in the ship description.
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Offline BritishShivans

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I can't believe you people are stupid enough to think that Homeworld 2 had better gameplay. Frigates were and are still entirely worthless except under certain circumstances and on top of this are WAY too fragile. Homeworld 2 is a better engine for modding than HW1, but the balancing is utter bull**** and anyone who believes that it was actually interesting/complex/meaningful rather than an act of complete laziness and an annoying, generic thingoid which is used too much should have their brains checked by a qualified brain technician to ensure that the communists people who are horrible at making video games haven't sucked out their bodily fluids via a needle mounted under the spacebar.

HW1 at least had good balance, where while some ships (like the minelayer) weren't useful under certain circumstances, but at least it wasn't generic rock-paper-scissors bull****. Assault Frigates actually remained useful, and Ion Cannon Frigates could actually kill things fairly well. On top of this, the point defense systems weren't actually pure ****, and worked well. It's a major pet peeve of mine that carriers and motherships in HW2 have such **** PD that you're better off just not bothering trying to get them to shoot at fighters. It amuses me how people also say that HW2 "improved" point defense, as the battlecruiser's PDS has such **** FOV that they rarely actually shoot at anything. Only the Vaygr Battlecruiser's PDS shot at anything, and it was so weak you were better off just relying on fighters to protect them.

For some reason it can kill corvettes pretty well, annoyingly. Not sure why, given that it can barely kill anything smaller than a frigate.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Hey BShivans, you make good points but they all get lost between the barrage of unnecessary insults and overall rudeness displayed.