[jg18]

After finding that the latest iMacs have GeForce 600 series cards with only 512 MB of video RAM I decided it's time to leave Apple and learn to build my own machine. Thus I turn to you guys for advice.

For the key question of what are you going to use it for?, it'd be mainly programming (meaning lots of compiling) and gaming. At a minimum, it'd be nice to be able to pick up just about any game in the next few years or so and get decent performance with good graphics settings.

I was thinking of spending $800 - $1,000, although a bit more would be OK.

I'm not planning on overclocking. I guess that could change at some point, but it's not a priority.

I don't need Windows 7, since I have a copy.

Recommendations for a magnetic screwdriver? Those look pretty useful. Are there any other tools worth getting?

I even have a 3M disposable anti-static wrist strap that I could wear for maximum dorkiness. Reminds me of this xkcd.

I've watched the three Newegg how-to videos and a couple similar videos, so I know what to expect. I also have a general understanding of hardware but zero hands-on skills -- seriously, upgrading the RAM in my iMac was a harrowing experience.


Just for comparison, current rig (mid-2010 15" MacBook Pro):

* Intel Core i5 2.4 GHz (520M)
* 8 GB DDR3 1067 MHz RAM
* nVidia GeForce GT 330M 256 MB
* 320 GB 5400 RPM HDD


As for specific parts:

- Monitor will be 1920x1080.

- No idea what to get for a case or PSU, although paying a bit extra for a nicer case that makes building/maintaining/upgrading easier would be worth it to me.

- I was thinking of getting 8 GB RAM and using an SSD (128 GB?) and HDD (~2 TB?) but I don't know what to get for any of those.

- For mobo, I was thinking Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H ($134.99, $119.99 w/rebate), which got good marks in Tom's Hardware.

- For CPU and graphics card, I was first thinking Intel Core i5-3570K Quad-core 3.4 GHz ($229.99, $214.99 w/promo) and Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 2 GB ($229.99, $209.99 w/rebate), but maybe those are too expensive and should be taken down a notch or two, not sure.

- I'll also need a DVD burner and a b/g/n wireless card.

- Do I need an aftermarket CPU cooler? If so, which one?

Looking forward to whatever suggestions you guys might have. Thanks!


EDIT: Final build specs (although my total was around $1175, including shipping/taxes):

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU:  Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($229.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler:  Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard:  Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H ATX  LGA1155 Motherboard  ($189.99 @ Newegg)
Memory:  G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Storage:  Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Storage:  Intel 330 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk  ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card:  Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card  ($213.98 @ Newegg)
Case:  Corsair Carbide 400R ATX Mid Tower Case  ($109.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply:  SeaSonic G 550W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply  ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive:  Asus DRW-24B3ST/BLK/G/AS DVD/CD Writer  ($28.98 @ Newegg)
Other: TP-LINK TL-WDN4800 b/g/n PCIe Wireless Adapter ($37.99)
Total: $1260.86
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-02-13 20:16 EST-0500)

[The E]

Well, I am currently building a new rig for myself, one that, at ~600 Euros, would come in at the lower range of your price bracket.

I chose the following hardware:
CPU: AMD FX 6300
GPU: SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition OC Vapor-X
MB: MSI 970A-G46 Motherboard
RAM: Mushkin DDR3-1600 Kit (8 GB, 8-8-8-24)
HDD: 1 TB Western Digital
PSU: Seasonic M12II-520
Case: Aerocool VS-3

Plus a DVD-burner and a PCI WLAN card.


Obvious upgrades here would be substituting the FX 6300 for an FX 8320 or an i5; With the budget I have available, and my usage patterns, the multithreading performance I get from the FX is likely to be more important than the single-thread performance one of the recent Intel chips would get me (and at the price, the only Intel chips I could have gotten would have been i3s, the FX 6300 looked like a better deal in that regard).
The next planned upgrade however would be a Bluray drive; I have some BRs left over from when I owned a PS3, and I would very much like to see them again.

As for monitors, I was lucky to get a Samsung Syncmaster P2770 used for cheap; I can offer no help there.

[Klaustrophobia]

- No idea what to get for a case or PSU, although paying a bit extra for a nicer case that makes building/maintaining/upgrading easier would be worth it to me.

i use a cooler master HAF 912, couldn't be happier.  well, i could.  i'd rather it not have a gaping hole in the top to let dust fall in, but that's nitpicky.  PLENTY of space for whatever gargantuan components you might use.  fits CM hyper 212+/evo heatsinks if you so desire such cooling (see below).  tool-less quick instert optical drive bay and 3.5" hdd rail system.  no annoying LEDs (except the power/hdd ones). 

i splurged on my PSU, which is never a bad thing to do, but i went a little overkill and got a 80+ gold rated 850 watt unit that was highly rated on hardware secrets.  those guys do fantastic in-depth reviews on the actual build quality of PSUs.  normal price for something like that is upwards of $200, but i lucked into a couple of stacked discounts and got mine for $130 out the door, $99 after rebate. 


- I was thinking of getting 8 GB RAM and using an SSD (128 GB?) and HDD (~2 TB?) but I don't know what to get for any of those.

these days it's pretty safe to get just about any non- "value" brand/series of ram.  if it has a heat spreader on it and you've heard the brand name before, it's probably alright.  i currently use gskill.  quality stuff, no gimmicks, and low price.  watch out for tall heat spreaders if you think you'll ever put an aftermarket heatsink in.  fortunately the ram manufacturers seem to finally be catching on to this.  the gskill ares series for example.  i like to look to see if i can find sticks with lower latency or the next bump up in speed that are only a few bucks more than the average going price for the standard stuff.  but that won't make a noticeable performance difference.


my personal opinion on SSDs is they aren't worth the cost, but i'm about the only one on the forum who thinks so.  my system already loads very quickly with just a mechanical hard drive, and you won't be writing enormous files to it so there isn't really anything to be gained for transfer time.  if you're set on one though, the samsung 830/840 series are pretty much accepted as the best out there.  conventional HDD- I recommend western digital black.


- For mobo, I was thinking Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H ($134.99, $119.99 w/rebate), which got good marks in Tom's Hardware.

that looks fine.  just for info, i have an ASrock that works quite well (and looks very slick), and i can vouch for their customer service.


- For CPU and graphics card, I was first thinking Intel Core i5-3570K Quad-core 3.4 GHz ($229.99, $214.99 w/promo) and Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 2 GB ($229.99, $209.99 w/rebate), but maybe those are too expensive and should be taken down a notch or two, not sure.

also seem like good choices to me, but i haven't done any real comparisons since i built mine right before ivy bridge was released.  i have a GTX 670, which is a bit pricey, but IT OWNS.  i can max every game i have, including crysis/crysis 2.  the 660ti seems to be the most popular mainstream gamer card.  i don't know how a 650 stacks up. 


- I'll also need a DVD burner and a b/g/n wireless card.
honestly i'd just go with the cheapest ones you can find for these


- Do I need an aftermarket CPU cooler? If so, which one?

if you aren't going to overclock, no.  if you think you might want to make that leap later on, it can't hurt to go ahead and get one for the initial build.  best bang for your buck is going to be the cooler master hyper 212+ or 212evo.  the evo is newer and a couple bucks more expensive, but i'm not sure it actually cools any different than the +.  i have the +.  do note, these things are HUGE and will not fit in a small case (the one i mentioned above is the smallest i'd be comfortable with), it might overhang a ram slot and prevent you from installing a stick with a raised heat spreader in it, and they are a little bit more tricky to install than the stock heatsink (which is why i say if you're going to get one to overclock eventually, do it now to save yourself some extra trouble later).

[BengalTiger]

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

That may help a bit, however it recommended me a PSU that's a bit less powerful than what the graphics card specs recommended (IIRC I got about 480-500 W from the calculator, while nVidia recommends 550 W for a PC with the GeForce 680).

Just got a 550 W PSU installed yesterday that I'll be reusing when I'll be building up my next PC (Core i7, GeForce 680, 8 GB of RAM, an SSD and an HDD, estimated cost would be about 1200-1300 USD if built today).
My old 450 W PSU gave up last week, after some 4 years of service.

[Veers]

Stick with brands that you know, or can trust. This includes brands recommended by other members.

I'm running a PSU by Corsair. Quality is top of the market in my opinion. It came in it's own carry case and everything, which honestly, is way over the top. But that perfect little niche I was looking for

Most of all, have fun building. Go at your own pace.

[newman]

I had a cheapo Corsair TX 650W die on me shortly after installing a GTX 480 almost two years ago. Replaced it with an AX 850W, so from Corsair's upper quality lineup - that's been fine ever since. Just listing this as an example - it can be cheaper to get a more expensive PSU right at the start. Though I was lucky and was able to get a replacement TX 650W since it was under warranty. The store wouldn't give me a better PSU and just slice off the price of the TX, so I picked up the brand new replacement TX in an unopened box and just sold it right off on the used market, covering a part of the price of the AX gold series one.

[The E]

Yeah, going cheap on the PSU is not something you should do.

[Luis Dias]

We are buying one more pc for our office this week. It will have an i7 3770, a Radeon HD 7850, (2x8) 16GB of memory. The rest is commentary. And I still feel that Moore's Law is crawling at the moment: I wished for a lot more horsepower to be available for this price point nowadays.

[The E]

I think the problem is that there is no real pressure on Intel to improve further for the time being. They currently have the top spot, and they know it; Even AMD's current best model is nowhere near an i7 in terms of performance (Except for situations where it can play to its strengths, most of which are not found in use cases commonly encountered by most people).

[General Battuta]

By the beauty of crowd sourcing I want to recommend this thread as the collective wisdom of the Internet's best on PC building. There's a big FAQ and a 'quick picks' list to help you avoid choice paralysis and focus on the very best!

[General Battuta]

Also if you're getting a modern Core i5/i7 it is probably really easy and really safe to overclock, and I'd recommend an aftermarket cooler. The stock Intel coolers are a huge pain in the ass to mount.

[Mikes]

honestly i'd just go with the cheapest ones you can find for these

Depends. Even for parts like DVD burners or WLAN cards it is advisable to be at least somewhat picky.

A flaky/shoddy wireless card that occasionally drops the connection can really ruin your day if you want to play online. I d at least recommend to go with a reputable brand; Intel for example. None of those cards, no matter the brand, are overly expensive anyways.

If the DVD Burner sucks it won't ruin your day... but it's still worthwhile to be somewhat picky and, for example, at least avoid those obnoxiously loud models. (If you want to watch movies or play games from DVD at all.)


With any part... if you buy the very cheapest, you often end up buying twice
(I ended up buying 3 full sets of case fans and 2 fan controllers until I was satisfied with my first attempt at building a "silent" PC heh. - now, years later, I finally realized buying a new case would have made it all much easier.)

[Suongadon]

Recommendations for a magnetic screwdriver? Those look pretty useful. Are there any other tools worth getting?


- Do I need an aftermarket CPU cooler? If so, which one?

Looking forward to whatever suggestions you guys might have. Thanks!

Not worth buying a screwdriver just for a one-time use, unless you have bad eyesight or shaky hands. Just save one of those sample credit cards that everyone seems to get in the mail or a (clean) playing card to use to spread the thermal paste for the cpu and you have all the tools you need.

Definitely get an aftermarket cooler even if you don't want to overclock now, the stock fans that come with current intel/amd chips are garbage. A hyper212+ will fit on any new intel or amd chips, and it shouldn't cost you more than 20-30$ minus whatever rebate is offered. Its huge, but it works, and with a second fan (like 5$) it'll handle a decent overclock too. Should fit in any case 9" or wider without any problems. And the motherboard you listed fits it just fine without any contact issues.

for a PSU, just grab a gold-certified PSU that can do 550 or 600W. No reason to go higher for the use you stated unless a gold-cert higher W PSU is on sale for the same price

[Suongadon]

oops

[TwentyPercentCooler]

Also if you're getting a modern Core i5/i7 it is probably really easy and really safe to overclock, and I'd recommend an aftermarket cooler. The stock Intel coolers are a huge pain in the ass to mount.

This. Cooler Master Hyper 212+ is an awesome and inexpensive aftermarket cooler. Noctua coolers are great and extremely quiet, but also expensive, about the same as a closed-loop water cooling system like a Corsair H60 (I have one, it's awesome).

Also, when you get a power supply, make sure you look not only at the wattage but also at the amps it can push through the 12v rail especially.

[Mikes]

Also if you're getting a modern Core i5/i7 it is probably really easy and really safe to overclock, and I'd recommend an aftermarket cooler. The stock Intel coolers are a huge pain in the ass to mount.

This. Cooler Master Hyper 212+ is an awesome and inexpensive aftermarket cooler. Noctua coolers are great and extremely quiet, but also expensive, about the same as a closed-loop water cooling system like a Corsair H60 (I have one, it's awesome).

Also, when you get a power supply, make sure you look not only at the wattage but also at the amps it can push through the 12v rail especially.

I'd second the Noctua. Extremely good build quality and performance.
Prolimatech may also be worth a look though.

Kinda wary about closed loop water cooling systems after reading some of the horror stories. Not something I would want for longterm use due to the potential risk.
Not only can a leak turn you computer into disgusting garbage - I was especially disgusted to learn that the cooling fluid used in those things is highly toxic.
The final nail in the coffin is the fact that none of those premade water cooling solutions is as good as highend air cooling. (Worst part: They can't even match the quietness of highend air cooling.)

The only time I would consider a closed loop water cooling setup at all, would be if cooler weight was an issue.
(I.e. If I planned to ship the computer somewhere - Which probably is why those solutions are so popular with online PC retailers.)

[LHN91]

Personal recommendation would be to go AMD for the extra cores for reasonable prices, 6 or 8 core on a 990FX or 970 chipset.

Yet another recommendation for the Cooler Master 212+ here. Wonderful, inexpensive.

Don't skimp on the PSU, it's probably the most important part of your system.

I have a 650, and it's only really good for medium-high details at 1080p in current games. Not exactly useless, but won't make you happy. Get something higher up; a 660 is probably enough as it's a significant jump up from the 650.

I have the Antec Three Hundred Two - very good case for under 100 (Mine was 73 after taxes), holds ATX boards and the 212+, has plenty of airflow. Definitely recommended.

Also - If you're doing a lot of compiling, you'll want lots of RAM. 16GB is cheap enough that it almost doesn't make sense to buy less if you'll be able to make use of it - which you likely will when compiling.

[rev_posix]

Side note, if you get a gigabyte board, you will have a better chance of being able to turn the machine into a hackintosh. 

[Mikes]

Side note, if you get a gigabyte board, you will have a better chance of being able to turn the machine into a hackintosh. 

I'm still stumped at why anyone would actually want to do that.

/cue flamewar

[General Battuta]

Personal recommendation would be to go AMD for the extra cores for reasonable prices, 6 or 8 core on a 990FX or 970 chipset.

They don't do anything yet though! There's no advantage to having them unless you're in very specific fields.