Author Topic: Amun or Osiris?  (Read 5071 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
You need to play with improved AI. Turrets don't do squat otherwise, but they become really OP when they can fire on their own and without artificial cooldown penalty.

EDIT: you want a better idea of what I'm talking about ? Think Isis, but faster, with shields and bombs. Now think a wing of them. There you go, Osiris with improved AI. Have fun assaulting that with anything less than a full friendly wing or long-range missiles. They basically run their own escort. Same for the Amun.

Medusa and Ursa are less problematic because they only have one turret that covers only half the ship. No exploitable dead angle on Osiris and Amun. All FS2 bombers are turretless, and are nothing more than interceptor fodder as long as you're flying anything more agile than a cruiser.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 04:59:03 pm by MatthTheGeek »
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Homeworld: Blue Planet     -     Help us help you     -     FSO Installer     -     BP extras portal     -     My legacy

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Apollo

  • 28
  • Free Market Fascist
You need to play with improved AI. Turrets don't do squat otherwise, but they become really OP when they can fire on their own and without artificial cooldown penalty.

EDIT: you want a better idea of what I'm talking about ? Think Isis, but faster, with shields and bombs. Now think a wing of them. There you go, Osiris with improved AI. Have fun assaulting that with anything less than a full friendly wing or long-range missiles. They basically run their own escort. Same for the Amun.

Medusa and Ursa are less problematic because they only have one turret that covers only half the ship. No exploitable dead angle on Osiris and Amun. All FS2 bombers are turretless, and are nothing more than interceptor fodder as long are you're flying anything more agile than a cruiser.
I'd have to agree with that. They both have good coverage (although the Osiris is somewhat better), and with enhanced AI a wing of them would be very dangerous.

I thought you were arguing that the Osiris is better than the Amun, but you never actually said that.

Wait, what was the point of this argument?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 03:16:07 pm by Apollo »
Current Project - Eos: The Coward's Blade. Coming Soon (hopefully.)

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
The point was that the Osiris doesn't suck. You can argue that the Amun is better, but you can't argue that it isn't an effective design as long as you have an AI that can actually use the turrets. The Sekhmet is probably a better ship for the player, who is actually able to defend itself, but the Osiris is gonna give you more trouble in tight wings.

We had to nerf the bomber turrets in BtA, reducing rate of fire and giving them fov, just so they wouldn't be completely, utterly overpowered. And even after that, they will still run their own escort, and don't expect take them out alone and without damage even with a fully armed Herc.

Survivability-wise, Artemises and Boanerges are just ridiculous jokes compared to Osirises. They're just flying targets. Osiris is a flying gunboat.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Homeworld: Blue Planet     -     Help us help you     -     FSO Installer     -     BP extras portal     -     My legacy

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Apollo

  • 28
  • Free Market Fascist
Wow, you had to nerf their turrets?

I think what we have here is a heavy bomber that poses little threat to capships but is very dangerous to fighters.

Perhaps the GTVA should take all the Osirises, replace their Cyclops with three banks of anti-fighter missiles, and use them as convoy and warship escorts?

EDIT: Now I know why retail AI nerfs bomber turrets so much.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 06:05:41 pm by Apollo »
Current Project - Eos: The Coward's Blade. Coming Soon (hopefully.)

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
Well actually it poses more threat to capital ships than an Artemis does, because it has more chances to survive long enough to deliver the bombs. Which is the whole point of a bomber to begin with.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Homeworld: Blue Planet     -     Help us help you     -     FSO Installer     -     BP extras portal     -     My legacy

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Apollo

  • 28
  • Free Market Fascist
Then I guess neither of them excel in that role. :p Never liked the Artemis anyway; its poor maneuverability and bad gun placement makes it a terrible dogfighter.

Seriously though, would the Osiris be useful as an escort ship? A wing of them armed with Kaysers or Prometheus S turrets would be very dangerous to fighters.
Current Project - Eos: The Coward's Blade. Coming Soon (hopefully.)

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
Why not, whatever rocks your boat. Shouldn't be hard to whip up a quick test mission to see for yourself.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Homeworld: Blue Planet     -     Help us help you     -     FSO Installer     -     BP extras portal     -     My legacy

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Black_Yoshi1230

  • 28
  • Fat and lazy glory hound, mooch, narcissist.
    • Black Yoshi's YouTube Page
Better yet, try that one mission from the Blackwater Ops demo (if you're using FS2-era assets). There are waves of Osiris bombers.

(If we had Prometheus S turrets or something akin to the Avenger, then I would quit complaining.)

The MechWarrior 2 Resource Forum / Flyboy's Flight Sim + Aviation Page / Falcom Sound Team JDK / Jane's F/A-18 - Resources

&& "LAUNCH! LAUNCH! S__T WE'RE HIT! WE'RE TAKING CANNON FIRE! GET US THE HELL OUTTA HERE!" - The best Jane's Longbow 2 Co-Pilot Audio Clips.

|| BEAMS! DEATH BY BEAMS! <- Blue Planet: War in Heaven in a nutshell. (Phrase is adapted from the Freeman's Mind spinoff Barney's Mind, Episode 14: BEES! DEATH BY BEES!)

^ Give a kid a stick and tell him to beat up his enemies, he'll do it without a second thought. Give a kid a book and tell him to defeat his opponent, and he'll read the book, defeat the other's mind, and smack him on top of the head. Give a kid a flower, he'll force his opponent to eat it.

 
Not seeing how a 40, 40, 20 capacity and crap primary mount is any good, but ok I won't try to "start that again" (as if I had any idea I was and/or was trying to "start something").

Sekhmet or Bakha instead plz.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Not seeing how a 40, 40, 20 capacity and crap primary mount is any good

You're right - those bits are not very good.  However 2x turrets with upgraded AI == very good :)

As a human pilot, you probably do not want to fly an Osiris (for the reasons you mentioned, plus the poor manoeuvrability).  But as a human pilot, you're also going to dread flying against a wing of Osiris.
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Black Wolf

  • Twisted Infinities
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
  • Hey! You! Get off-a my cloud!
    • Visit the TI homepage!
Not seeing how a 40, 40, 20 capacity and crap primary mount is any good, but ok I won't try to "start that again" (as if I had any idea I was and/or was trying to "start something").

Sekhmet or Bakha instead plz.

I don't see any problem with "starting that again" if "that" is a free space discussion on a freesoace discussion board. :P
TWISTED INFINITIES · SECTORGAME· FRONTLINES
Rarely Updated P3D.
Burn the heretic who killed F2S! Burn him, burn him!!- GalEmp

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
It was more about not start it again in the release thread. We have this thread here for that.

Bloodfleet, have you read the thread before posting ? It's not that long.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Homeworld: Blue Planet     -     Help us help you     -     FSO Installer     -     BP extras portal     -     My legacy

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 
Yeah I get it, you in a fighter going against a wing of them with improved ai and avenger/prom/kayser/whatever turrets is going to hurt. I guess I should say that I agree on that point. Perhaps then you should get your allies to help, usually you have allies yes? That or trebuchet, double tornado, tempest...

I take it I should have specified I am talking about having to fly one yourself?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 09:20:53 am by BloodFleet »

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
Well yeah, but flying bombers in general is quite unentertaining. And since the turrets are the biggest trouble, and that you don't control them, it's even less attractive as a player ship. I do prefer flying a Sekhmet myself.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Homeworld: Blue Planet     -     Help us help you     -     FSO Installer     -     BP extras portal     -     My legacy

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

  

Offline crizza

  • 210
And I just wanted to add the Stheno...
But well, the Sekhmet should be the zod bomber of choice.
Check out my blog:

http://geo.schulzbert.de/