Author Topic: Zathras 2.7c for testing  (Read 10046 times)

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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Zathras 2.7a for testing
Already fixed the aurora normal map issue on my end.   Found it when fixing the badger.

First I've heard about the Nova.  I'll have to check that one.   Confirmed on the Nova.  I could fix it but better to let emi_100 handle it if he has time. 
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 11:02:04 pm by FUBAR-BDHR »
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Offline den5

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Re: Zathras 2.7a for testing
First I've heard about the Nova.  I'll have to check that one.   Confirmed on the Nova.  I could fix it but better to let emi_100 handle it if he has time. 
Check the glow points also. Most of them use wrong subobject. Like this one: Glowblue and glowred for sensors02a uses backenda-destroyed as parent subobject.

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Zathras 2.7a for testing
Nova Glow point parents fixed.  Why PCS2 links to subobject number instead of name for those still is a mystery.   Make one simple change and boom all your glow points are on the wrong subobjects. 
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline Vidmaster

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Re: Zathras 2.7a for testing
Does anyone know how the nebula texture clipping test works? For example, when playing Operation Black Sun Mission 2 (the one with the Centauri Cruiser) and the Nova jumps in and starts firing, it looks silly. You hear the sound but you cannot see any projectile unless you hover almost on top of the turret. And we need a new texture for the nebula anyway...
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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Zathras 2.7a for testing
I've tried to figure out why the nebula in TBP looks so bad and can't figure out any single reason.  I've replaced the FS2 assets in retail 1 by 1 until no retail FS2 assets were being used including using TBP ships and weapons and don't get the issue or at least not in the same way as in TBP.  The only thing I can definitely say causes some of the issue is the  fog distance entries in objecttypes.tbl but it seems to only be a symptom of whatever is actually causing the problem.  I really think the nebula rendering code has some major issues that need to be fixed code side but I can't even narrow down what causes the problem to file a ticket on the issue.

BTW Vid this issue is in the TBP mantis.   
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline Vidmaster

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Re: Zathras 2.7a for testing
- I can confirm that you have found the issue with our shine maps => unless we want our ships to look like floating mirrors, we will have to tweak a lot by hand... => later.
- Launching AI from docking bays has definitly improved a lot, great job FUBAR! So far I have not seen endless circling which is definitly superb. However, ships still like to do a new extra rounds sometimes, attached an example mission. Run it a few times, at least a few ships of the three wings should do funny stuff. Question is, is it still path related or is the AI trying to avoid collisions?
- I have question regarding turret angles: We still have cases of ships firing through their own hull, for example the EA Poseidon which likes to fire its weapons through its rotating middle section. Could this be restricted by limiting firing angles?
- also want to stress that have not encountered any subsystem issues thus far, everything I shot at was actually hit and no shot passed through. The game's less polished models are getting more and more playable, brilliant job. I definitly missed a few Zathras versions to much. Feels good to be back.  :)

BTW what exactly was the game breaking bug in the 3.6.16 build? The missions I have played were pretty okay so far apart from a few glitches (which are probably mission-wise, I will look into them when redoing my campaigns for our next big Zathras release :rolleyes:).

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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Zathras 2.7a for testing
- I can confirm that you have found the issue with our shine maps => unless we want our ships to look like floating mirrors, we will have to tweak a lot by hand... => later.
Well that is good news and of course bad news because of the work. 
Quote
- Launching AI from docking bays has definitly improved a lot, great job FUBAR! So far I have not seen endless circling which is definitly superb. However, ships still like to do a new extra rounds sometimes, attached an example mission. Run it a few times, at least a few ships of the three wings should do funny stuff. Question is, is it still path related or is the AI trying to avoid collisions?
Well I wasn't actually fixing the specific issue with the looping although I did adjust a few paths that could have caused the issue.   The updates were because people were launching wings of 6 ships from ships with fewer bay paths resulting in 2 or more ships stacked on top of each other.  Avoiding collisions doesn't cause the issue.  The AI actually doesn't have any collision detection until like the 3rd or 4th point on the launch.   What looked like it was happening with some ships was the turn between 2 points on the path was very sharp and the AI would look like they were going back to hit a missed point.   If you know of specific ships this is happening on I will try to correct the issue on those.  On a side note I have notice that ships launched with no orders will also appear to loop in some cases especially when the launching ship is moving. 
Quote
- I have question regarding turret angles: We still have cases of ships firing through their own hull, for example the EA Poseidon which likes to fire its weapons through its rotating middle section. Could this be restricted by limiting firing angles?
Haven't really fixed this issue on all ships.  I did some that were clearly an issue when doing the loding and debris but intentionally skipped others for now.   This is something that will need to be done carefully as fixing some ships could really throw off mission balance.   The issue fixed in this version were the position of the fire points on the guns.  Due to some inconsistencies in PCS2 and/or FS2_Open awhile back most of the turrets were firing from mid air and not the barrels.  While not noticeable on a lot of the smaller turrets things like the Vorchan looked terrible.  Again if you have specific ships that you know can be fixed and fixed without breaking anything let me know.  I plan on going back over this anyway as I've noticed quite a few while looking at ships.tbl recently. 
Quote
- also want to stress that have not encountered any subsystem issues thus far, everything I shot at was actually hit and no shot passed through. The game's less polished models are getting more and more playable, brilliant job. I definitly missed a few Zathras versions to much. Feels good to be back.  :)
Yea I tried to make sure everything had proper centers and bounding boxes so unless there is some mesh error that didn't blow up PCS2 or FS2_Open they all should have collision detection now.

Quote
BTW what exactly was the game breaking bug in the 3.6.16 build? The missions I have played were pretty okay so far apart from a few glitches (which are probably mission-wise, I will look into them when redoing my campaigns for our next big Zathras release :rolleyes:).

Damage scaling was broke so damage was scaled as if you were always playing on insane.
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Zathras 2.7a for testing
- I have question regarding turret angles: We still have cases of ships firing through their own hull, for example the EA Poseidon which likes to fire its weapons through its rotating middle section. Could this be restricted by limiting firing angles?
You guys need to use the "check hull" flag, that's exactly what it's made for.
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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Zathras 2.7a for testing
Except it wasn't used when the missions were initially balance so just adding it to turrets on certain ships can break a lot of existing missions.  All of a sudden ships that were set up with turrets having a 360 degree firing radius can't shoot through their hull reducing the firepower of the ship by up to 50%.  And yes some of the ships are that bad. 
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Zathras 2.7b for testing
2.7b currently uploading.  Should be available in about 30 minutes. 
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Zathras 2.7b for testing
- Launching AI from docking bays has definitly improved a lot, great job FUBAR! So far I have not seen endless circling which is definitly superb. However, ships still like to do a new extra rounds sometimes, attached an example mission. Run it a few times, at least a few ships of the three wings should do funny stuff. Question is, is it still path related or is the AI trying to avoid collisions?

Can you email me that test mission.  I get a 404 error trying to access the attachment.
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline Vidmaster

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Re: Zathras 2.7b for testing
I must shamefully admit that I lack your current email address on this PC. (Fresh OS, my usual policy after a LAN party). Attaching it again but PM me the address for future reference please.

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Offline den5

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Re: Zathras 2.7b for testing
-Conflict with HP Auroras and standard Aurora normal maps fixed
This is still happening with Mk1, Escort, Sheridan, Sinclair and Ivanova.

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Zathras 2.7b for testing
Fixed and also fixed the black omega. 

On a side note no one should be using the Escort, Sheridan, Sinclair, or Ivanova reskined versions in the tables.  Those table entries will be removed at some point.  These should only be used by texture replacement. 
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Zathras 2.7b for testing
Took a look at that stationtest mission and made some adjustments to the paths.  The problem is still there but not as noticeable.  It's not the old issue where all the ships looped.  I believe what we are seeing now is the ships getting the the end of the launch paths and then the AI code deciding they need to shift to be in wing formation.  Since our fighters are more maneuverable then the FS2 ones they do a quick fall back and shift that looks kind of like a loop.  Now the real question is what can I do about it.  I'm guessing really nothing that will solve the issue entirely.  I could probably fix it for the aurora's and other ships their size but then things like shuttles could start running into each other.  Of course the setup of that hanger with the back being the outside of the ship doesn't help matters. 
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline Vidmaster

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Re: Zathras 2.7b for testing
like I said it is still a massive improvement over previous versions
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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Zathras 2.7c for testing
2.7c uploading now.  Should be up in about 40 minutes give or take.
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline Ariel

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Re: Zathras 2.7c for testing
Zathras 2.7c available for testing.  If your just playing the game this is not what you are looking for you want version 2.6.

To use I suggest extracting into a new directory (something like Zathras2.7) and pointing the mod in the launcher there.  This way you can switch back and forth to confirm any issues with the previous version.  Of course you will need 3.6.18 or newer builds.     

Known issues:

-Texture replacement for the EA Tanker not working on existing missions.  This is due to an issue where the maps were shared with the Freighters causing a conflict with HTL versions.  Fortunately this doesn't actually break the missions you just don't get the alternate texture.  Fixes for those missions (which were all Vid's) will come down the road.
-Help for high-res IO main hall is broke.  While the engine now supports more then 2 main halls the help system apparently doesn't. 


Now for the good stuff:

-Updated versions of models are now included in Z_Advanced.vp.  This includes the HP Aurora's, HTL Freighters, cargo pod, HTL Zephyr, and HTL Venom 1 & 2 missiles.  The default is to use these updated versions.  If your machine can't handle them they can be "turned off" simply by removing Z_Advanced.vp from the Zathras folder.
-Some additional -shine and -glow maps have been added.  Note these are not changed maps being discussed in another thread but ones that did not exist before. 
-A few weapons have new or corrected effects.   Other alternate weapon versions added. 
-Vorchan has had fighterbays added to it so it can double as the Demos class.  Weapon for the Demos class also added.
-Additional Main Halls from Skullar are now included since the engine supports more then 2 main halls now.   Campaigns can now set IO by setting main hall to 1 and ISN by setting it to 2 in the campaign editor.  Name support will be added when that code hits trunk. 

Changes since 2.6:

-Fire points for all turrets should now be correct to within .0005m.  If that isn't close enough quit playing through a microscope. 
-All ships with fighterbays now have at least 6 bay paths to keep ships from colliding with each other at launch.  The only exception is the Skylark which isn't big enough to launch any ship in the game anyway.
-Some alternate Aurora textures have been removed.  These were not used by any known mission and there was no version for the HP Auroras available. 
-Several ships have had missing subsystems added.
-Explosions for non-field asteroids should now be correct
-KI Lordship is in the process of being reworked to be canon.  A working updated version is included but by no means finished. 
-Fixed F1 help screen for all but 1 of the main halls.
-MR Thoughtforce has had some major changes.  It now flies the correct direction, has subsystems, and weapons have been updated.  This should not cause any issue as I could not find a single mission using this ship.


Changes since 2.7a:
-Omega and Omega-X collision detection and other fixes
-Found glow map for the Schwartzkopf hidden in the 3.4b core.  Now available but I had to shorten the name so watch for that when using texture replacement.
-Conflict with HP Auroras and Badger textures fixed
-Conflict with HP Auroras and standard Aurora normal maps fixed
-Bunch of updated maps form emi_100.
-Nova and Warlock normal maps fixed
-Nova glowpoints now on correct subobjects
-New suns and lens flares from emi_100 added to Z_Advanced.
-Ships.tbl clean up.  This is a big one.  Since I now have svn version control locally and Zathras-shp.tbm was getting huge I decided to merge it and clean up ships.tbl.  So Zathras-shp.tbm is no more.  Additional-shp.tbm still exists but is just a dummy file with nothing in it to prevent the old version in the core from being read. 
-Vree support ship removed.  As part of the cleanup this was found to not be used by any known mission and since there are no vree player ships it's not needed.  It was just a copy of the EA support ship so can easily be recreated if needed. 


Changes since 2.7b:
-Updated version of the EA Nova called EA Nova#Guns.  This one has all the guns working.
-New Shadow version of the Nova originally made for EAS Janus.  Rebuilt off the Nova#Guns version and updated to take nameplates.
-Fix normal map conflicts with tabled retextured version of the Aurora's. 
-Weapons for the Shadow version of the Nova
-Couple of other weapons from EAS Janus
-Nial updated to allow use of new secondary for it.
-Orion bay paths tweaked a bit for better launches
-Zathras-wep.tbm merged into weapons.tbl and removed.  Weapons table cleaned up.
-Clean up of several other tables/tbms in Zathras.  No values changed here just made neat and readable. 

Some notes on this version: 
-The new Nova versions and the weapons are not final and subject to change.  If you want to use them in new missions just be aware you may need to edit the missions for future changes.
-The retextured versions of the Aurora's at the bottom of the list should not be used for new missions.  These will be removed at some point.  Please use texture replacement. 
-The additional secondary weapon for the Nial should not cause any issues with existing missions as it is not in the loadouts.  Be aware that if you don't want it used in new missions you will need to verify it's not available in the loadout editor just like the rest of the ships/weapons.
-I did fix a few minor bugs in weapons.tbl while cleaning it up.  If you notice any strange behavior please let me know.  Testing this table is the main reason for putting out this latest version.


Please give this some testing.  I have a completely new setup locally so it's possible some things might not be working the same in the .vp versions as my test setup.  I have tried to set it up so it should work properly but there is no guarantee I didn't miss something.  Also testing with and without the Z_Advanced.vp present (renaming to Z_Advanced.vps for testing should work just fine) would help. 


BTW  should i change the launcher for FSO 5.5g or stay with the current TPB 5.5b?

thanks

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Zathras 2.7c for testing
Definitely update the launcher. 
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline wesp5

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Re: Zathras 2.7c for testing
So a whole month has passed without any updates... Does this mean Zathras is nearing perfection for release or are there still issues left, but nobody has had the time to fix them? Do you plan the "real" public Zathras release for version 3.0 or sooner?