[Mongoose]

Tellin' stories, singin' songs, and fightin' round the world!

[Apollo]

no, i'm just annoyed how for all battuta's talk of how it's important to keep the standard of discussion civil and intelligent he's perfectly happy with people dragging it down if they agree with him

He brought up good points (as his last point indicates) and his level of discussion was pretty much the same as the rest of the thread so far plus he was drunk!

His basic argument was correct, but it was buried in a barrage of insults and misspellings that would make any wannabe-thug teenager look like an English professor. Granted, he was right, but that doesn't automatically excuse his behavior.

EDIT: "his level of discussion was pretty much the same as the rest of the thread"

Was the rest of the thread full of "lol you some stupid ****s **** you"?

If you don't know what a drunk Australian sounds like this is a great place to learn. Believe it or not, his post contained more thoughtful, reasoned, multipolar content than the rest of the thread put together up until that point!

His post also contained more personal attacks than the rest of the thread put together up until that point. It seems like Dilmah (and Suongadon, for that matter) are so eager to flame everybody as misogynists that they fail to consider any alternative explanation for people disagreeing with them.

[deathfun]

i wont be going outside naked any time soon. in the winter my pecker would freeze, in the summer giant bloodsucking helicopters. no thanks.

Indubitably

[General Battuta]

no, i'm just annoyed how for all battuta's talk of how it's important to keep the standard of discussion civil and intelligent he's perfectly happy with people dragging it down if they agree with him

He brought up good points (as his last point indicates) and his level of discussion was pretty much the same as the rest of the thread so far plus he was drunk!

His basic argument was correct, but it was buried in a barrage of insults and misspellings that would make any wannabe-thug teenager look like an English professor. Granted, he was right, but that doesn't automatically excuse his behavior.

EDIT: "his level of discussion was pretty much the same as the rest of the thread"

Was the rest of the thread full of "lol you some stupid ****s **** you"?

If you don't know what a drunk Australian sounds like this is a great place to learn. Believe it or not, his post contained more thoughtful, reasoned, multipolar content than the rest of the thread put together up until that point!

His post also contained more personal attacks than the rest of the thread put together up until that point. It seems like Dilmah (and Suongadon, for that matter) are so eager to flame everybody as misogynists that they fail to consider any alternative explanation for people disagreeing with them.

Hard point to substantiate when Dilmah's post is full of alternative explanations! It was seriously the most multilateral thing in the thread.

[Polpolion]

no, i'm just annoyed how for all battuta's talk of how it's important to keep the standard of discussion civil and intelligent he's perfectly happy with people dragging it down if they agree with him

He brought up good points (as his last point indicates) and his level of discussion was pretty much the same as the rest of the thread so far plus he was drunk!

His basic argument was correct, but it was buried in a barrage of insults and misspellings that would make any wannabe-thug teenager look like an English professor. Granted, he was right, but that doesn't automatically excuse his behavior.

EDIT: "his level of discussion was pretty much the same as the rest of the thread"

Was the rest of the thread full of "lol you some stupid ****s **** you"?

If you don't know what a drunk Australian sounds like this is a great place to learn. Believe it or not, his post contained more thoughtful, reasoned, multipolar content than the rest of the thread put together up until that point!

His post also contained more personal attacks than the rest of the thread put together up until that point. It seems like Dilmah (and Suongadon, for that matter) are so eager to flame everybody as misogynists that they fail to consider any alternative explanation for people disagreeing with them.

Hard point to substantiate when Dilmah's post is full of alternative explanations! It was seriously the most multilateral thing in the thread.

Hell of a lot of good that does if no one wants to take posts like that seriously.

[Woolie Wool]

You are seriously advocating that it should be a-okay for everyone to go around streaking 'because primitive tribes in africa do it'? Oh wait no, because it's illogical. 

You obviously did not understand my point. Think off a logical answer as to my question then. Why everyone shouldn't be allowed to go around naked? What is immoral about being nude around other people? Also, answering along the lines "It's obvious, everyone knows they shouldn't." isn't an answer at all.

It's unhygienic and often either distracting or upsetting.

Most societies where people go around "naked" either have very limited contexts where it is acceptable to be naked (i.e. fishing or other water-related activities, or young children who are required to cover up upon reaching puberty) or different criteria for nudity (in certain South Pacific islands, men would wear some partial covering for their penises and are "naked" by European standards but would be mortified and ashamed to be seen without their penis gourds), anyway. So they still have a nudity taboo, just expressed differently. I can't think of a single society that has no clothing or body ornaments that are considered essential items.

Also, hey Dragon, way to generalize about and other an entire continent full of diverse peoples and many full-fledged indigenous civilizations. Was the Songhai Empire a "tribe in Africa" too?

[Dilmah G]

Battuta, you are a top bloke.

A few points I'd like to make, hopefully without unduly further inflaming the issue:

1. I'd like you to find me a drunk person who can type in perfect English with a minimum of profanity. Bonus points if the subject is Australian.

2. The personal attacks are bad, yes, I understand with crystal clarity that people don't like having their interaction with the opposite sex called into question and being accused of being a misogynist. On the other side of the coin, those of us who understand what modern Feminism is are rightly offended when people make broad accusations based on a faulty understanding of it. I believe I've laboured the point enough, but one of the key points of my post was to establish that a continued history of, what in the context of a correct understanding of feminism can be interpreted to be sexist commentary is harmful to the image of the community for one, and that halting it and instead pursuing education would be a solid move.

3. I challenge anyone who thinks I apply the misogynist label liberally to find instances outside of this thread where I'm sober and have misapplied or liberally applied the term.

4. I'd like anyone who still has issues to re-read my handful of intoxicated posts on this thread. Apart from a brief tirade where I mock the first few posters who thought this kind of thing was reflective of all of Feminism as being misogynist (which, as I've stated prior, is logical, given a proper and reasoned understanding of Feminism), I don't think my posts are chock-full of assaults on every member of the forum.

So in conclusion, yes, Dilmah was a bad man with a filthy, inebriated mouth on Friday night. I laughed at a few people and called them misogynists for their views on Feminism. Some of their views were later substantiated, some were not. But I think this idea that my posts were big and bad is false, considering what I'd still think to be sexist posts that this thread began on.

[Luis Dias]

Can we move on from discussing Dilmah's post? That is so 4 days ago. Seriously, I liked his post because yeah it pretty much summed up what I was thinking at that point, but come on. This thread is so meta it's not even funny.

[BritishShivans]

Holy crap, people are still arguing about this? Dilmah's post, like Battuta said was better than everything else in the thread. I'd say my post is an exception though, as I was lazy at the time and didn't bother explaining why I felt that more.

If you want to know why, take a look at Tumblr and check out the "feminists" that have blogs there. The vast majority of them are absolutely horrid people. I'm cool with making sure there's no inequality bull****, but people who will happily guise their self-entitledness to things in the premise of "equality" will almost always deserve to be beneath everyone else as far as I am concerned.

I mean seriously, they actually think that there is an organization of men called "The Patriarchytm" who seek to oppress the Dear Leader female gender and that they are responsibly for everything ever bad to happen to women, and many of them literally believe that all men are a part of this "movement'. It's quite clearly conspiracy theory territory.

But you know what I hate about his? They're not confined to Tumblr. They apparently constitute a large portion of the feminist movement. And their behavior has done absolutely nothing except to hurt the movement.

I wasn't saying that all feminists are like that, either. As I said above, I got lazy and didn't bother attempting to describe why I felt that, but here.

[Nuke]

1. I'd like you to find me a drunk person who can type in perfect English with a minimum of profanity. Bonus points if the subject is Australian.

i can do that minus the bonus points. that is if you call the modified redneck that i speak a dialect of english. and thats after vomiting twice and drinking some more.

[General Battuta]

Holy crap, people are still arguing about this? Dilmah's post, like Battuta said was better than everything else in the thread. I'd say my post is an exception though, as I was lazy at the time and didn't bother explaining why I felt that more.

If you want to know why, take a look at Tumblr and check out the "feminists" that have blogs there. The vast majority of them are absolutely horrid people. I'm cool with making sure there's no inequality bull****, but people who will happily guise their self-entitledness to things in the premise of "equality" will almost always deserve to be beneath everyone else as far as I am concerned.

I mean seriously, they actually think that there is an organization of men called "The Patriarchytm" who seek to oppress the Dear Leader female gender and that they are responsibly for everything ever bad to happen to women, and many of them literally believe that all men are a part of this "movement'. It's quite clearly conspiracy theory territory.

'Das Patriarchy' is less of an organization that people consciously subscribe to than a power structure inscribed in social norms. It's a bundle of frequently unconscious behaviors and associations, many of which we can actually detect in the lab with SCIENCE, others of which just kinda pop out at you if you think about the way society works.

A lot of these attitudes harm men as well as women!

Another important consequence of the presence of these attitudes is that a lot of men have what gets called 'male privilege', which they didn't ask for and often aren't aware of. One simple example that gets cited a lot is the behavior of a man vs. a woman walking down a street at night or taking a subway.

[Luis Dias]

How I'd love to say BritishShivans is dead wrong. But after witnessing the total cluster**** that those PZ Myers "Freethought" blogs went through (and all the crazy shenanigans that Dawkins, Harris and even Shermer had to go through...), I must say that such a ****fest exists.

However, I'd say those are loud mad voices. And loud mad voices are utterly over-represented in the nets. Most feminists like me are usually mild mannered and don't take part on all shenanigans like that. And when you say "**** the feminazis" and so on, you are really making the mistake of over-generalizing. You are confusing a whole sensible movement with a tiny ****ty mad portion of it.

[BritishShivans]

....For god's sake. Luis, I ask you to shut up and actually pay attention for a moment. No, I'm not overgeneralizing. I'm talking about the ****ty/crappy people in the movement, and why I feel that way.

I. Am. Not. Saying. The. Entirety. Of. The. Feminist. Movement. Is. horrible. like. that.

Do you understand? Because if you want to argue about semantics and argue 'lol generalization', something which I ****ing loathe, you can quite kindly demonstrate maturity and take this to PMs rather than helping **** up the thread even more than what it even is.

God.

[General Battuta]

Uh dude he was pretty much agreeing with you

[karajorma]

There is no cause so right you won't find idiots following it. The problem starts when we let those idiots speak.

[Luis Dias]

....For god's sake. Luis, I ask you to shut up and actually pay attention for a moment. No, I'm not overgeneralizing. I'm talking about the ****ty/crappy people in the movement, and why I feel that way.

I. Am. Not. Saying. The. Entirety. Of. The. Feminist. Movement. Is. horrible. like. that.

Do you understand? Because if you want to argue about semantics and argue 'lol generalization', something which I ****ing loathe, you can quite kindly demonstrate maturity and take this to PMs rather than helping **** up the thread even more than what it even is.

God.

Yeah, because it sure wasn't you who said:

pitiful

modern "feminism" is a disgrace to humanity

it is as Nuke said once (paraphrased)

stop dividing my ****ing species

I was just imagining stuff you see.

[Spoon]

Holy crap, people are still arguing about this? Dilmah's post, like Battuta said was better than everything else in the thread. I'd say my post is an exception though, as I was lazy at the time and didn't bother explaining why I felt that more.

If you want to know why, take a look at Tumblr and check out the "feminists" that have blogs there. The vast majority of them are absolutely horrid people. I'm cool with making sure there's no inequality bull****, but people who will happily guise their self-entitledness to things in the premise of "equality" will almost always deserve to be beneath everyone else as far as I am concerned.

I mean seriously, they actually think that there is an organization of men called "The Patriarchytm" who seek to oppress the Dear Leader female gender and that they are responsibly for everything ever bad to happen to women, and many of them literally believe that all men are a part of this "movement'. It's quite clearly conspiracy theory territory.

But you know what I hate about his? They're not confined to Tumblr. They apparently constitute a large portion of the feminist movement. And their behavior has done absolutely nothing except to hurt the movement.

I wasn't saying that all feminists are like that, either. As I said above, I got lazy and didn't bother attempting to describe why I felt that, but here.

I think this is why when a lot of people(men) hear feminist they go 'ugh, gtfo'. Because 99% of the times when there is 'news' involving feminism, its some crazy lady shouting crazy things. Like with this supposed ban on porn. The intent is noble (fighting against objectification and exploitation of women) but the proposed method is just nuts.
I think for a lot of men this is all the involvement they'll ever have with feminism, which just makes them go "them feminists are at it again, *****es should get back in the kitchen" as they crack open another beer can.

I'm absolutely pro equal rights (for example I find it crazy that there are so many occasions in which women and men do the same work, at the same workload but women get paid less because Idunnowth in 2013) but these "Strong wymen don't need men blablabla" crazies can go take a hike. They do more bad than good.

[redsniper]

So, I guess we can all agree it's wrong to oppress anyone based on gender then, yeah? And then proper feminism is a good thing since it's about doing the exact opposite.

[el_magnifico]

So, I guess we can all agree it's wrong to oppress anyone then, yeah?

Fixed.

[Apollo]

no, i'm just annoyed how for all battuta's talk of how it's important to keep the standard of discussion civil and intelligent he's perfectly happy with people dragging it down if they agree with him

He brought up good points (as his last point indicates) and his level of discussion was pretty much the same as the rest of the thread so far plus he was drunk!

His basic argument was correct, but it was buried in a barrage of insults and misspellings that would make any wannabe-thug teenager look like an English professor. Granted, he was right, but that doesn't automatically excuse his behavior.

EDIT: "his level of discussion was pretty much the same as the rest of the thread"

Was the rest of the thread full of "lol you some stupid ****s **** you"?

If you don't know what a drunk Australian sounds like this is a great place to learn. Believe it or not, his post contained more thoughtful, reasoned, multipolar content than the rest of the thread put together up until that point!

His post also contained more personal attacks than the rest of the thread put together up until that point. It seems like Dilmah (and Suongadon, for that matter) are so eager to flame everybody as misogynists that they fail to consider any alternative explanation for people disagreeing with them.

Hard point to substantiate when Dilmah's post is full of alternative explanations! It was seriously the most multilateral thing in the thread.

His later posts had alternative explanations. Not his first one.

Anyway, I'll let it go, because he said that four days ago and more dumb arguments are the last thing this thread needs.