Author Topic: BP GTVA Infrastructure  (Read 9295 times)

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Offline FIZ

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BP GTVA Infrastructure
I hate starting a thread with an apology but a rekindled interest in the back story and an unhealthy dosage of SimCity 5 has me wondering...

What (in the BP verse) is the infrastructure like on the other side of Delta Serpentis?   I imagine the 'capitol' of the GTVA (or at least the Security Council) being in Beta Aquilae with Vasudan and Terran infrastructure being much more 'high-density' around their respective home systems.  Interesting that the NTF rebellion happens almost at an 'equidistance' from Sol and Vasuda. 

Link to I believe FS canon map: http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Fsnodemap.jpg

The level of detail on the layout of Mars drives a suspicion there must be some 'BP canon' about the infrastructure of the GTVA and I would like to hear some more about it if the devs are interested in sharing.  For example, in a role reversal, how Calder Servanti and Steele's tactics would be implemented if they were based out of Sol attacking the GTVA.

I wasn't around for Inferno and I think that was the scenario there so I am very excited  :yes: about that update since last I heard what has been released is... rather out of date.

If this has been discussed on another thread I honestly have no idea what to search for, so again I apologize.  Keywording GTVA and infrastructure seems like it will point back to Sol.

If it hasn't really been discussed, where do they brew the Bosch beer?  Where is the aluminum for the cans smelted?  Where do the workers go for a vacation?  :P
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 04:18:32 pm by FIZ »

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
That is a super interesting question, and the answer is that we do not have anything collected and ready to present right now! But I bet a thread about it would be awesome.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
Well, one thing we know for sure is that the terran half of the GTVA has less population than Sol, but is spread out on multiple planets and systems.

This implies a lot of stuff about the infrastructure, mostly much less concentrated cities and much more long-distance travel.

<speculation>

You would either have a couple, very large cities per planet, with the rest of the planet devoid of all infrastructure, or many smaller cities linked by efficient public transportation.

Space-wise, you would certainly have more small support and refueling stations than you could see in Sol, given the distances involved to go from one end of the GTVA to another, and the lack of subspace gates.
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Offline Drogoth

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Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
I've  tossed this idea around on other threads, but I imagine they probably have quick response stations at each node, or at least a standby ship loaded with meson warheads. That way if the Shivans are detected they can seal off the node immediately. I'd count that as infrastructure the same way I would count a customs office or some other equivalent at node termini.
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Offline -Norbert-

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Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
I wouldn't be so sure that the GTVA has more ship traffic.

In Sol there are only few habitable planets, but there are inhabited moons, asteriods and space stations. There is even a whole "country" that dosen't have a single habitable planet in it's terretory (the Jovians).

The GTVA on the other hand has the luxury of there being enough planets that they can concentrate on just those and don't need to bother with moons, asteriods and populated space stations.

Though with them being spread out over multiple systems, I'd imagine that in the GTVA the civilian space traffic is likely handled by bigger ships to make those costly (and necessary) jumpdrives cost-efficient.

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
i always imagined the GTVA to have a high level of "spacer" population, and most of the on-world colonies to be one or two large cities with the rest of the planet virtually empty. 
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Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
i always imagined the GTVA to have a high level of "spacer" population, and most of the on-world colonies to be one or two large cities with the rest of the planet virtually empty. 

My gut feeling has always given me the impression that this was the case. Though we're obviously lacking in canonical information, I can't see life thriving very well (if at all) on some of the background planet bitmaps provided in FRED.

 
Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
It seems implied that the infrastructures of the three players (UEF, GTVA Terrans, GTVA Vasudans) are all fairly similar. The UEF is able to hold the line (mostly...) against Steele's force. Most of the reason I assume the war goes badly for the UEF is because 1) the GTVA was preparing for the attack and the UEF wasn't, 2) Steele is crazy smart, and 3) the Elders and Byrne want defensive action.

The type of structure would depend on the habitability of the planets. If you have "shirtsleeve" environments, then you don't need stations/habitats/random rocks on which to live. In that case, most traffic would be on-planet, and the planets would be more densely populated. If you have Mars- or Venus-type planets that require domes and/or terraforming, you're essentially living in a station already. So, I'd imagine there would be more stations floating about and therefore more space shipping.  I would agree that it would be denser near the homeworlds, as those were probably developed first.

If Sol housed half of the human population, then the colonies are fairly sparsely built up. I'm thinking less than 2-3 billion people on-planet per system. I don't recall any population numbers from FS2 or BP, so I could be way off. There would be plenty of open space and raw resources on-planet given this, assuming the average size of each planet resembles Earth. You would assume that each system wouldn't have a huge manufacturing base compared to Sol; it'd be spread among the systems. Sol had I think at least 3 shipyards in-system, so you'd figure maybe 3-4 main shipyards outside of Sol.

Since the end of the Second Incursion, the Terran half of the GTVA has been solely focused on getting back to Sol. It's mentioned that they've neglected other areas to achieve this, so there may be decaying infrastructure around the far colonies. 50 years is a long time to be without the umbilical to home, and 18 of those focused on one project.

Tactically, I don't think there would be much difference if the roles were reversed. If the UEF committed to offensive action, they'd still be using hit-and-runs and stand-off weapons. They can't match the Tevs in a knife fight, so they'd try to snipe from distance. Calder's strategy would probably to hit them hard in weak positions, with locally overwhelming force. If the UEF could bring the war outside of Sol, they might be able to achieve parity in tech as the pressure on their own infrastructure would ease. In that case, you might see more "conventional" FS warfare.

 

Offline FIZ

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Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
Damn, I did say Calder.  I meant Servanti I believe, who wanted a war of attrition and keep the Sol infrastructure as functioning as possible.

I kinda want to avoid the UEF breakout scenario, as UEF needs a lot more munitions which would rely on a strong logistical chain yadda yadda yadda

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
The Capella system was densely populated by GTVA standards, with 250 million people.

 
Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
Damn, I did say Calder.  I meant Servanti I believe, who wanted a war of attrition and keep the Sol infrastructure as functioning as possible.

Ah, well! That changes things! I think Servanti would probably still try to wear the UEF down. Steele would probably try to make an incursion into Sol. Practically, Steele would end up being at the tip of the spear, leading the offensive actions against UEF-held systems, more than likely with small, well-trained, well-equipped strike teams. Think Rommel in WW2. Servanti would probably be concerned with the defence of his assets, and he would take large actions to move the entire line. Servanti is the counter-weight to Steele. As we've seen, Steele unleashed is madness/genius.

I kinda want to avoid the UEF breakout scenario, as UEF needs a lot more munitions which would rely on a strong logistical chain yadda yadda yadda

Given the current situation, the best the UEF can hope for is to kick the GTVA out of Sol. For now, anyway. Their infrastructure is trashed, so they couldn't do much more than that.

The Capella system was densely populated by GTVA standards, with 250 million people.

Ah, I knew there were numbers somewhere.

 

Offline crizza

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Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
This point always itched me.
Given Delta Serpentis is the first System the terrans arrived, shouldn't it be almost as densely populated as Sol?
Surely they wouldn't have jumped into their colonization ships, all excited about waging war against the zods and not creating a proper infrastructure on the new colonies?

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
The Terrans have had interstellar spaceflight for less than a century, IIRC. I'm surprised populations are as large as they are.

 

Offline Gray113

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Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
Quote
shouldn't it be almost as densely populated as Sol?

Wouldn't it depend on how habitable the planets are in the system? Even if they could support life there would be a multitude of reason that prevent large scale colonisation in any system. Solar activity, radiation, native flora/fauna, tectonic activity, available resources (food, water) ect

 

Offline The E

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Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
shouldn't it be almost as densely populated as Sol?

In short, no. Humans do not procreate that fast, and there's a rather big bottleneck in place (known as interstellar lift capacity) that limits the number of colonists that can be shipped out.

Add to that the hardships of having to terraform a planet (Even if it comes with a Nitrogen/Oxygen atmosphere at the right ambient pressure and temperature, you'll still have to import a whole human-compatible ecosystem), and population numbers won't be that high as a result.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
And in the context of a planned colonization of another world, sheer numbers aren't going to be nearly as important as skilled labor and infrastructure.

 
Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
If 250 million people are in a system (max), and there are approximately 15 systems to the Terran half of the GTVA (on the wiki there are 29 systems, so I rounded to 30), subtract Sol out, and you get about 3.5 billion people (max) living outside of Sol. Think China and India combined plus some extras. The Vasudans probably have a ton more in sheer numbers, simply because they were able to save some of their homeworld's population after the Great War. You've also gotta think that inside Sol there are 10-15 billion people. We've already got 7 billion now, wait 300 years plus Mars and the outer system. Unless there's some "plague" that :v-old: decided to write in their future histories...

 

Offline Mars

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Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
IIRC the Tevs are supposed to have at least comparable numbers to Sol - I'm guessing Delta Serpentis would be pretty heavily populated for instance.

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
Raptor831: Capella was a densely populated system, that doesn't mean it was the most populated system.  Chicago's a heavily populated city by North American standards, but it still just has a quarter the population New York City does (a bit less than half if one's going by metropolitan area, but you get my point).

Beta Aquilae and Delta Serpentis might well have a billion people each.  Sol and the Terran half of the GTVA have comparable populations, the GTVA is just much more spread out.

 

Offline -Norbert-

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Re: BP GTVA Infrastructure
If 250 million people are in a system (max), and there are approximately 15 systems to the Terran half of the GTVA (on the wiki there are 29 systems, so I rounded to 30), subtract Sol out, and you get about 3.5 billion people (max) living outside of Sol. Think China and India combined plus some extras. The Vasudans probably have a ton more in sheer numbers, simply because they were able to save some of their homeworld's population after the Great War. You've also gotta think that inside Sol there are 10-15 billion people. We've already got 7 billion now, wait 300 years plus Mars and the outer system. Unless there's some "plague" that :v-old: decided to write in their future histories...
You forget something. The people in the GTVA terretory didn't just pop into existance out of nowhere - they moved from Sol to the new colonies.