[watsisname]

I think my brain stem just detached itself and is now strangling me to de

[karajorma]

While I generally believe that conspiracy theorists are full of ****, the idea that the US government would never do something like that was pretty much disproved when the Joint Chiefs approved Operation Northwoods.

Kennedy might have said "No ****ing way!" but it's hard to claim every other president would have.

[The E]

The problem with these theories is that it assumes that the people involved do not in any way fear the consequences of their actions being revealed.

It also assumes that the people involved are so hilariously incompetent that a bunch of people with internet access can poke holes into the official story with ease.

[zookeeper]

The problem is that there's no way to tell which one's a real conspiracy and which one isn't. If a major intelligence agency wants to for example do something nefarious and pin it on someone else or simply spread misinformation, then they can. I have no doubt that the vast majority of conspiracy theories are baseless, but we can't tell whether any given one (discounting the really really obviously ludicrous ones) has anything to it. As pointed out, history seems to contain plenty of real conspiracies which are just as crazy and were handled just as incompetently or competently and involved just as many people as would be required by some of the conspiracy theories which we casually toss to the looney bin.

[The E]

Conspiracy theories cannot be entirely discounted (Just as Russel's Teapot cannot be entirely discounted), but I haven't seen one that was developed on the internet and that actually held water for any amount of time. the problem I have is that conspiracy theories are not "Theories" in the scientific sense, and they sure as hell aren't investigations in the criminal sense.

I understand why many people think these conspiracy theories to be so compelling. It's certainly more comforting to believe in a big evil conspiracy that is out to get you, your freedom and your guns (not necessarily in that order) that orchestrates events to further their nefarious goals, than it is to believe in the possibility of people doing random **** out of their own volition. Being able to tie everything into a neat little narrative, that's always good; Admitting and being okay with the fact that sometimes things happen that just don't make sense is much harder than that.

Admittedly, I am biased against the whole subgenre of american conspiracy theories that follow the "Government does X to use as a precedent for tightening regulations on Guns/passing laws designed to broaden the powers of the executive" narrative.

[karajorma]

That's why I pointed out Operation Northwoods. The Joint Chiefs agreed that the destruction of a US ship in Guantanamo Bay was a good idea. As was building a fake MIG and having it shoot down an American jet, planting bombs in Miami or even Washington, hijacking planes, and sinking refugees boats on the way to America.

This isn't a conspiracy theory. This actually happened! Fortunately Kennedy thought the CIA and military were complete off their heads to even contemplate the idea of committing terrorist actions against their own country.


Do I think the US has ever carried out a Northwoods style operation? Maybe, maybe not, I wouldn't be surprised if they had.
Do I believe that conspiracy theorists have ever stumbled across it? Absolutely not.

[MP-Ryan]

Do I think the US has ever carried out a Northwoods style operation? Maybe, maybe not, I wouldn't be surprised if they had.
Do I believe that conspiracy theorists have ever stumbled across it? Absolutely not.

Exactly.  Most conspiracy-theorists are so incompetent that they probably couldn't be expected to recognize an actual conspiracy if they ever did stumble on it.  While intelligence agencies make mistakes, you have to give them more credit than conspiracy cretins apparently do.

[An4ximandros]

So much stupid, it hurts from laughing.

[deathfun]

So much stupid, it hurts from laughing.

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[yuezhi]

these people look like they're out of the loop. bet they haven't memorized the 50 states like good citizens.