Author Topic: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"  (Read 24682 times)

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Offline Spoon

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
I see
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
I think the other difference with the Santorum comment is that the US and the Netherlands don't have any real shared animosity in living memory, so I'd assume your average Dutch citizen would look at that statement and respond with, "LOL, 'murikans."  Obviously the situation between Japan and China/Korea is another story, and one far more likely to prompt, "Okay, what the ****."

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
I think the other difference with the Santorum comment is that the US and the Netherlands don't have any real shared animosity in living memory, so I'd assume your average Dutch citizen would look at that statement and respond with, "LOL, 'murikans."  Obviously the situation between Japan and China/Korea is another story, and one far more likely to prompt, "Okay, what the ****."
Yeah that was exactly the reaction I had.
The point wasn't that it is in any way on the same level of severity as the dumb statements done by japanese prime ministers. Just that Karajorma said "Name one occasion where they haven't been forced to apologise. " Joshua did and then Karajorma laughs it off as "Nobody cares about that guy" even though he gathered millions of votes during a presidental candidate election. At least admit that you've been proven wrong Kara :p

Anyway, while I completely agree how immature and dumb the Japanese are regarding this subject, I'm not completely comfortable with the sheer amount of hostility there is in this thread directed to the whole of Japan because of a prime minister's acting like a douche.
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[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 
Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
the prime minister's trying to erase the memory of atrocities that happened 60 years ago and this is part of a general trend in the political culture

in a democracy the voters are responsible for the the public statements of their elected leaders, yes
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Offline Spoon

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
We already established that.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
Oh I wasn't certain you couldn't find a case. Hell, I'm sure you could find others. But notice I didn't say it never happens, I said it was pretty rare. I was certain that if you found a case, you'd be scraping the bottom of the barrel.

I made the point that anybody making hugely offensive comments would be forced to apologise for them. Santorum's comment offended who exactly? You pretty much admit that you weren't offended. And agree that the Dutch weren't offended either. Who exactly demanded that he apologise? The comments I posted about are so bad that even the US started demanding the mayor take them back. While the Rick Santorum case, well the results speak for themselves.

This seems entirely too much like a "Let's see if I can finally prove Karajorma wrong about something" series of posts rather than trying to make any point related to what I was talking about.
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
This seems entirely too much like a "Let's see if I can finally prove Karajorma wrong about something" series of posts rather than trying to make any point related to what I was talking about.

Tough being King Louie of the jungle. :P
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
Anyway, while I completely agree how immature and dumb the Japanese are regarding this subject, I'm not completely comfortable with the sheer amount of hostility there is in this thread directed to the whole of Japan because of a prime minister's acting like a douche.

Who is being hostile towards Japan?

Sure I've said they're to blame for electing that twat but I've said much the same thing about the British and American population for their stupid electoral decisions.
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Offline Flipside

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
Voting for a politician is kind of like buying a games compilation, you usually only get it for one or two parts of the total content, and suddenly discover you've also inherited a load of crap into the bargain ;)

  

Offline karajorma

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
More like the second you install it, you get a bunch of DRM and browser toolbars you never wanted. :p
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Offline Spoon

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
Typical Karajorma post #18923
Not even gonna bother with it.
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[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
Errr.. you just did...

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
Anyway, while I completely agree how immature and dumb the Japanese are regarding this subject, I'm not completely comfortable with the sheer amount of hostility there is in this thread directed to the whole of Japan because of a prime minister's acting like a douche.

Who is being hostile towards Japan?

Sure I've said they're to blame for electing that twat but I've said much the same thing about the British and American population for their stupid electoral decisions.

It has seemed that way to me too, that you are hostile towards all Japanese. If you only blame them for electing him, which is trivial, then I have no problem. Although I think you see it as more than trivial. But you've given me the impression you think all (or most) Japanese are bad people.

Voting for a politician is kind of like buying a games compilation, you usually only get it for one or two parts of the total content, and suddenly discover you've also inherited a load of crap into the bargain ;)

I like this. I've been trying to think of something like this. You have to take the rough with the smooth. I think the Japanese won't care about some ranting about something that happened 70 years ago if they think he's the best man for the job of guiding the country through a global recession.

Which is an interesting point, I don't know what the central reasons for Abe's election were. I know nothing about Japanese politics. For all I know, the other person/people could simply be blithering idiots.

Typical Karajorma post #18923
Not even gonna bother with it.

What do you have against Karajorma? I'm not taking sides, but am curious.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
Typical Karajorma post #18923
Not even gonna bother with it.

What do you have against Karajorma? I'm not taking sides, but am curious.

This line of questioning is off-topic. If you want to know, try to take it to PMs. Do not reply to this.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
It has seemed that way to me too, that you are hostile towards all Japanese. If you only blame them for electing him, which is trivial, then I have no problem. Although I think you see it as more than trivial. But you've given me the impression you think all (or most) Japanese are bad people.


I strongly believe that countries should be held responsible for the people they elect. There's far too much of the "I voted for the least ****ty party I thought might win" followed by "Why is the government so ****?"

How's about actually electing someone good in the first place?

And that's not an issue which only affects the Japanese, but pretty much every democratic nation.

Quote
I like this. I've been trying to think of something like this. You have to take the rough with the smooth. I think the Japanese won't care about some ranting about something that happened 70 years ago if they think he's the best man for the job of guiding the country through a global recession.


So, would you vote for someone who is a fervent holocaust denier if you agreed with the rest of his policies then?

I tend to believe that there are some views so out of line with any kind of sensible thinking that even if I seem to agree with the rest of the guy's policies, I suspect I'm being tricked.
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Offline Lorric

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
It has seemed that way to me too, that you are hostile towards all Japanese. If you only blame them for electing him, which is trivial, then I have no problem. Although I think you see it as more than trivial. But you've given me the impression you think all (or most) Japanese are bad people.


I strongly believe that countries should be held responsible for the people they elect. There's far too much of the "I voted for the least ****ty party I thought might win" followed by "Why is the government so ****?"

How's about actually electing someone good in the first place?

And that's not an issue which only affects the Japanese, but pretty much every democratic nation.

Quote
I like this. I've been trying to think of something like this. You have to take the rough with the smooth. I think the Japanese won't care about some ranting about something that happened 70 years ago if they think he's the best man for the job of guiding the country through a global recession.


So, would you vote for someone who is a fervent holocaust denier if you agreed with the rest of his policies then?

I tend to believe that there are some views so out of line with any kind of sensible thinking that even if I seem to agree with the rest of the guy's policies, I suspect I'm being tricked.

I've never thought anyone worthy of a vote. Nor anyone particularly less bad than the competition. I've only ever voted once, and I voted for the one I thought would win, to block a particularly bad candidate for my local MP from winning. How can you vote for a good candidate if there isn't one? I would vote for someone if I thought they were the best though, even if I thought they had no chance of winning, they would have earned my vote, and I wouldn't deny them it.

It's a good point, but yes, I'd vote for the Holocaust denier. If everything else they were saying was perfect sense, it could be okay. Someone could have just got to them with some conspiracy stuff. All it might take is some dismantling of the garbage they'd been fed to set them right.

Or they might never speak of it. Some people have skeletons rattling around in their closets, but we only know because the opposition unearthed them, and otherwise they are not spoken of.

But even if they did insist on airing their views, it would be sickeningly embarrassing, but nothing more, if the candidate otherwise did a good job of running the country. At the end of the day they're there to do a job, and you want the best person for that job. And if they were the best person for the job, then they should be in the job.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
Words fail me to describe how utterly horrifying, utterly unprincipled and stupidly dangerous that view is.
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Offline Lorric

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
Words fail me to describe how utterly horrifying, utterly unprincipled and stupidly dangerous that view is.

It just seems logical to me. Someone who is going to make people uncomfortable from time to time when they open their mouth vs. an inferior candidate who will make people's lives worse with the decisions they will make.

And we wouldn't have to just sit and take it either. Once the person was in power, it could (and I'm sure would) be made clear that that viewpoint has no place in today's World.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
My god, do you even think about these things before you write them? Do you ever take the time to come up with a consistent set of morals and ideals for yourself?

On one hand, you say we should not allow people making utterly stupid claims to remain in office. Now you're saying that we should educate these people after they've been elected? That we should elect them despite them being utterly abhorrent just because they've said a few nice things we agree with?

Do you even understand why that is the wrong thing to do? Do you, a self-proclaimed student of history, know what you are saying here? Do you have any idea AT ALL how political movements like the Nazis came to be in power? Partly because of intimidation, yes. Partly due to the rest of the political scene being too disorganized. But mostly because of people who thought like you do. People who believed that all this antisemitism wasn't all that serious. People who believed that the NSDAP would do the right thing when in power. People who ignored parts of the ideology because the other parts sounded so good.

Is that what you want? Is it so ****ing easy to manipulate you?
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Offline Lorric

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Re: Japanese Prime Minister : "We didn't invade China or Korea"
My god, do you even think about these things before you write them? Do you ever take the time to come up with a consistent set of morals and ideals for yourself?

On one hand, you say we should not allow people making utterly stupid claims to remain in office. Now you're saying that we should educate these people after they've been elected? That we should elect them despite them being utterly abhorrent just because they've said a few nice things we agree with?

Do you even understand why that is the wrong thing to do? Do you, a self-proclaimed student of history, know what you are saying here? Do you have any idea AT ALL how political movements like the Nazis came to be in power? Partly because of intimidation, yes. Partly due to the rest of the political scene being too disorganized. But mostly because of people who thought like you do. People who believed that all this antisemitism wasn't all that serious. People who believed that the NSDAP would do the right thing when in power. People who ignored parts of the ideology because the other parts sounded so good.

Is that what you want? Is it so ****ing easy to manipulate you?

When did I say "we should not allow people making utterly stupid claims to remain in office"? Not in this thread.

Holocaust denial, no one would ever take such a thing seriously. The Holocaust is a cast iron fact, the evidence it happened is overwhelming. Attempting to make the masses believe it never happened would be laughable.

Hitler from what I understand largely got people on his side due to his ability as a speaker. He could just say things and make people believe it. That won't fly today, we don't have to just take someone's word anymore. The people in power are no longer the only ones who can reach a global audience. Anyone can do it. And the past is on our side. Everyone knows about the nazis. The nazis still exist today, but they're a joke. 

The only thing specfied here was denial of the Holocaust. You don't have to be a nazi or a Jew-hater to believe the Holocaust never happened.