Author Topic: Is fredding a form of art?  (Read 10429 times)

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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
Therefore an artisan is really someone that only exists as a kind of holographic mirage to those that actually "consume" the pieces of art?

They're less than that. Aside from the evidence of the work's existence and possibly other works' existence I'd wager you've seen any other sign the artist exists for well under half the works you've encountered.

Artists who don't perform are not real people to most of the end users, which is why acting pays big bucks and writing doesn't.

That's quite solipsistic. Luckily artists do not need your "recognition" of their existence for their own ability to self-recognize as artists.

(Let alone the obvious confusion you make between artists and performers. People can be both, or not. They are not the same thing however)

 

Offline Black Wolf

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
FRED is the block of unfinished marble you ordered.

Quote from: NGTM-1R
Fredding is igneous rock production.

Marble is a metamorphic rock. :P[/geologist]

As for the topic at hand, I have to admit I don't really feel like an artist when I sit down to FRED. But I suppose by most definitions it could be considered as such. But if it is art, its fairly constrained, restrictive art, which seems antithetical to the concept, to my mind at least.

FRED is perhaps more like a craft, like blacksmithing or woodwork. A finely made but traditional table, for exqmple, can have some artistic flair, after a fashion, but much of it is predicated by the requirements of the purpose of the piece. I think FREDdibg has a lot in common with that sort of product, moreso than art for pure art's sake.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 07:55:47 am by Black Wolf »
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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
What is art?
Baby just FRED me  :ick:

Seriously? I think FREDing may be considered as a kind of art. If FREDer is an artist, a mission is an art "product", and FRED a tool, then FREDing is using a tool (FRED) by an artist (FREDer) to make an art (missions). So, art?

We write stories in books, right? There are also movies, audiobooks, comics... Books give you story, but rest is to imagine by yourself. Comics show you how the stuff looks, movies give almost everything - story, visual and audio feelings, but games give you also emotional "feel" of the story. Not to be a side "witness", but to be a hero of it. To be in it. Take part in it.
FREDing is mostly making an interactive story. Well, at least partially interactive. When writing a story is making art, FREDing does the same. Just in a different way.
Of course, FRED might be used as a tool for "experiments" like a tool to make a pile of mud instead of a sculpture :ick:
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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
If writing (the act of writing), sculpting, acting, directing, composing are forms of art, then I'd say FREDding is as well. It's the means by which one creates what could be a work of art.

If FRED is the canvas and assets the paints, and the final mission is the work of art, then the FREDding is where you put all the things together that make the art.

 

Offline SypheDMar

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
FRED is a tool, like a hammer or pencil or keyboard.

Fredding, the act of taking an idea and turning it into a completed mission, is not functionally different to the process a sculpter goes through when turning clay into a sculpture.

So, is fredding art? No. Are finished missions art? Yes. Are Fredders artists? Yes, absolutely.
I get where you're coming from, and I'm a bit surprised to find that my original perception is different from what should be the obvious.

I see FREDding as art because I see "beauty" (usually astonishment and/or horror) in a completely FREDded mission. When I open up FRED and place my setpieces on the board, I see myself as hiring the actors. When I add in events, I am directing them.  When the mission is fully FREDded, when viewed in FRED, the .fs2 can appear grand, horrifying, simple, or even confusing; just like a painting.

I see artistic merit in the .fs2 file itself rather than only when viewed in FreeSpace 2.

 

Offline Rheyah

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
I always felt it was more like engineering than art.  Art is subjective, but engineering is absolute.

FREDing is taking a series of events and making them, to the least invasive approximation, a real thing.  It has a lot in common with the numerical simulations I do for my work.

 
Re: Is fredding a form of art?
I always felt it was more like engineering than art.  Art is subjective, but engineering is absolute.

And I think that is the heart of the issue. Planning out a mission/campaign, with details like "How many ships?" and "What is going to happen?", is art. Getting from that idea to a finished mission is engineering. You can still have some art while engineering the mission, but that is usually because something won't work.

 
Re: Is fredding a form of art?
Some people view good engineering as art...

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
Fredding cannot produce art and cannot be an art form because of it. All it can produce is FS2 files, which require FS2 to actually become any possible kind of art.
By that logic, image editing software cannot produce art and cannot be an art form because of it. All they can produce is image files, which require an image viewer to actually become any possible kind of art.
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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
I wanted to raise that point a few days ago, except I was about to use movies as an exemple instead :P

 
Re: Is fredding a form of art?
FRED is a tool, like a hammer or pencil or keyboard.

Fredding, the act of taking an idea and turning it into a completed mission, is not functionally different to the process a sculpter goes through when turning clay into a sculpture.

So, is fredding art? No. Are finished missions art? Yes. Are Fredders artists? Yes, absolutely.

This.

For me, Art is all about conveying a certain set of emotions or thoughts. For example, an emotion I often feel when playing "He who rides the tiger" is "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA". Thus, "he who rides the tiger" can be considered art.

 
Re: Is fredding a form of art?
For me, Art is all about conveying a certain set of emotions or thoughts. For example, an emotion I often feel when playing "He who rides the tiger" is "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA". Thus, "he who rides the tiger" can be considered art.

Would you say that the act of creating art is an art form? Or would you say that only the finished product is an art form?

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
Brain be hurting now.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
I agree, this discussion has degraded quite a lot. It's beyond silly for me to watch this ghastly display of generalized wilful ignorance and contempt for anything that goes near art theory.

Kill this thread with fire. It deserved a lot worse, with a few exceptions (like The_E's short but clear comment).

 
Re: Is fredding a form of art?
I'd say no, as even Axem is describing the product that the consumer gets. This is something which FRED is wildly divorced from.

It's like if you needed a completely different set of eyes to view a statue. A completed mission may be art when played, and that's related to FRED, but what's actually in FRED is very divorced from the completed mission and would look a mess to most players.

Nonsense.
The production of Art is in itself a form of Art. Reference Francis Bacon's studio, preserved as-is in the Hugh Lane gallery in Dublin. This is a visual of his process, his brain turned inside-out. It's chaotic, 3 dimensional,  utterly unique and beautiful.

Many Art production processes seem more like technical exercises than finished art. But Ridley Scott's storyboards for Blade Runner are both a technical process ANDa sequence of carefully worked up images.

FREDing is certainly more technical than traditionally creative, but I would not separate the Art from its process. A painting on canvas is very different to one on wood. But the selection of which surface is part and parcel of the finished product. The decisions the artist makes, in whatever medium, is what creates the artistic quality in an object, image, concept or production.

Weather or not the process makes sense to other players is completely immaterial - it makes sense to the Artist/FREDer.  That's all that matters.

My 2 cents.
BH
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 03:52:17 pm by Bullhorn »

 
Re: Is fredding a form of art?

 
Re: Is fredding a form of art?
FRED is a tool, like a hammer or pencil or keyboard.

Fredding, the act of taking an idea and turning it into a completed mission, is not functionally different to the process a sculpter goes through when turning clay into a sculpture.

So, is fredding art? No. Are finished missions art? Yes. Are Fredders artists? Yes, absolutely.
I think there is some general confusion in this thread between an Art Work and an Art Forms.

 

Offline SypheDMar

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
And the moment you mentioned it, the distinction is now made.

 
Re: Is fredding a form of art?
?...
You would argue there is not? Or is?

I'd go with one and same, yet identifiable as separate parts of a holistic process. Something can be  'unfinished' (like many a FRED mission) and still a work of art. An art forms, to me, can possibly result in an art work.

EG digital fps game design is an art form, with FS2 as a resulting art work.
Layered within FS2 is Fredding as another art form, with the mission file as the container/frame of the resulting art work - the mission experience itself.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 11:10:51 pm by Bullhorn »

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
By that logic, image editing software cannot produce art and cannot be an art form because of it. All they can produce is image files, which require an image viewer to actually become any possible kind of art.

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