[Dragon]

What I meant is "FSO-enhanced FS2", which is a bit of a mouthful. That's never gonna run without FS2. FSO engine can run as standalone, but then, such mods are capable of independent distribution anyway (though if we had a "greenlight-compatible" license for the code, we could possibly put things like Inferno and WoD on Steam once they go standalone...).

[The E]

Yes, but FSO itself doesn't require anything FS-related (as Diaspora amply demonstrates).

Which is a meaningless distinction in this context.

[Bobboau]

there are a grand total of, what, five mods that run on their own? how many of them don't have any (not a cursor, not a font not a single pixel of interface art) retail data copied into them?

[karajorma]

Diaspora doesn't AFAIK. We were careful to try to make sure that all our assets weren't from retail.

If anything has slipped in, we'll try to remove it as quickly as possible.

Not that it matters, we can't distribute Diaspora on Steam without bringing down NBC's lawyers on us like a ton of bricks.

[Dragon]

It should be possible to purge WoD and Inferno of retail assets. In case of the latter, only retail designs have to stay (I'm opposed to that, but that was the decision... The original R1 had all original designs), but the actual models, textures and all can be the upgraded/remodeled versions. Dimensional Eclipse also looks good in that regard, though there would be some changes needed at the very start.
Unfortunately, most high-profile FS conversions are based on other IPs. BP is the largest "original" project, but it's not a TC. WoD has the best chance of being a suitable conversion for standalone Steam release. DE and Inferno both depend on the legal status of upgraded models from Mediavps.

[General Battuta]

BP will be going standalone.

[Rheyah]

I believe Interplay would be beyond stupid to nix the FSO project after a decade.  The backlash alone when it got around the PC gaming community would be enough to utterly cripple any hope they had of getting financially solvent again.  Never mind that FSO artificially and for no cost increases the life of arguably the best game in their portfolio while specifically being directed at an anti-piracy stance.

The only real problem I see rights wise is the Freespace conversion not requiring the original Descent Freespace.  However given that so much of Descent Freespace has been altered by the community (including Dan Wentz providing new music) again it'd be suicidal to get rid of it.

The best thing Interplay could do for their own financial security is to put Freespace 2 on Steam and then do exactly as GOG did - THIS is where you go to make this look good.  Have fun playing in one of the best mod communities in the world.

[AndrewofDoom]

DE and Inferno both depend on the legal status of upgraded models from Mediavps.

I hardly think that's an issue here. The bigger issue is all the stuff Droid and I yoinked (read: character sprites, music, sounds, etc) from other sources. If we would get it on Steam, we would need to make everything ourselves lest we get a bunch of lawyers dropped on us. Wings of Dawn is in more or less the same situation but to a much lesser extent.

If Diaspora wasn't based on the BSG IP, it would be the one best posed to be put on Steam.

[Dragon]

Ah, right. Music might be the single largest issue. Head anis, while not easy to make, could be re-made (and all in all, the project would probably be better off for it), and misc. sounds are available from various free sources, including other FS mods (and even if you can't find any, you could always try to mix and modulate the available ones into unrecognizablity). For WoD, the issue would pretty much only be with music. Free music is definitely available, and we do have a few composers on the forum, so this hurdle might be possible to overcome.

And now that I think of it, who owns the Wing Commander trademark? It just occurred to me that since Origin Systems no longer exist, there might be a chance for WCS as well. Does Roberts have the rights, or did they go to someone else?

[The E]

They never went anywhere. They're still owned completely by EA.

[Lorric]

It's not just music Dragon, it's sound effects. I know for instance Wings of Dawn contains sound effects taken from Gundam shows.

[Dragon]

As I said, sound effects are available from other sources. Steve-O's pack in particular has quite a few creative ones. A good, free "blaster"-type sound effect might not be easy to come by, but it should be possible to find ones that fit. Fitting music is much harder to come by than sound effects.

[Lorric]

As I said, sound effects are available from other sources. Steve-O's pack in particular has quite a few creative ones. A good, free "blaster"-type sound effect might not be easy to come by, but it should be possible to find ones that fit. Fitting music is much harder to come by than sound effects.

I was referring to this bit specifically, I probably should have quoted it:

For WoD, the issue would pretty much only be with music.

I just wanted to point out WoD does also use SFX that would land it in trouble, and that it's not just music.

[Spoon]

Sound effects are not a big issue, its easy enough to mix some pew pew sounds together to create a 'new original do not steal' sound that is hard to put a copyright claim on.

Music though...
Well that's pretty much been discussed at large in the BP thread about it. WoD is kinda in the same boat as BP in that regard.

[Dragon]

I just wanted to point out WoD does also use SFX that would land it in trouble, and that it's not just music.

I know, but as Spoon said, replacing those isn't that big of a problem. TBH, it could be done regardless of copyright issues as a part of graphics overhaul, because the results can actually sound better than what is there now (though I wouldn't say the current sounds are bad).
Music is the real challenge here. BP is popular enough to have it's own composer on the team (or at least, it did have one back when I was on the main team). It'd be great to have one for WoD, too, because results can be truly mind-blowing with music tailored to a mission.

[General Battuta]

We have four composers working in various capacities but it's very doubtful we can (or even want to) replace all our copyrighted music.

[Bobboau]

I don't think purging TCs of retail data is actually that good of an idea, I think the fact that all of these games require FS2 installed to work helps us when it comes to dealing with interplay.

[General Battuta]

Music is the real challenge here. BP is popular enough to have it's own composer on the team (or at least, it did have one back when I was on the main team). It'd be great to have one for WoD, too, because results can be truly mind-blowing with music tailored to a mission.

Also wanted to flag this as unnecessary - in practice the results are usually best when you work in the opposite direction.

[karajorma]

BP will be going standalone.

It will? Why?

[The E]

To make installation easier. Right now, the install procedure is "install retail FS2, install MediaVPs (but not those ones, no, you need these ones), install BP". That's not exactly straightforward (And to all the people out there who think it is: I'm happy it's working for you, but you're not reason why we want to do this), and we feel BP is sufficiently impressive so that creating an option for people to point other people at a single download and a single install is a worthwhile goal.

(There's also a minor thing at play here in that such a move would allow us to drop a good part of the ships and weapons that are grandfathered in through FS2 that we aren't using anywhere, reducing the clutter and consolidating all the various tbms into one place)