Author Topic: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released  (Read 1396 times)

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Offline gevatter Lars

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
I am still wondering what the Editor will be and what we can do with it. Russ was kinda cryptic about the "Its only the editor". Isn't an editor to build stuff the basis for any kind of mod?
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Offline Turambar

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
MW5Mercs Editor has been released.  I'll play with it and let you know what it can do.

EDIT: This is pretty much the editor they used to make the game.  We can do everything.  I am already cracking open their UI blueprints.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 03:21:48 pm by Turambar »
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline gevatter Lars

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
If you take a look at the UI, do you think you can do something like the 2016 alpha preview hud or at least the 2018 mechcon trailer hud? Would allready be a big help.
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Offline Turambar

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
I'm pleased to present the first wave of mod activity!  The next crop of UE4 developers is getting their first bit of experience!

https://www.nexusmods.com/mechwarrior5mercenaries/mods/newrecently

Some good stuff in there, like the mod for saving and loading colors and patterns, and the mod for applying IK to mech legs. 
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
We were trying to remember on discord why you were acting like you were paid to promote this game. Question answered

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
We were trying to remember on discord why you were acting like you were paid to promote this game. Question answered

Always charming here on the HLPBB.  Never change.  :nono:

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
Why don't you go cram it up your own ass, Batts?  If people are talking this kind of **** in the Discord I need to get in there and set you all straight.

I was able to turn modding into a career, where I have a house and a wife and am about to start a family, and there's some newbies in there and I'm enthusiastic about them taking the first steps on that path, and this is what you have to say?   Do you even remember what forum you're on?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 10:28:52 am by Turambar »
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline The E

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
Why don't you go cram it up your own ass, Batts?  If people are talking this kind of **** in the Discord I need to get in there and set you all straight.

I was able to turn modding into a career, where I have a house and a wife and am about to start a family, and there's some newbies in there and I'm enthusiastic about them taking the first steps on that path, and this is what you have to say?   Do you even remember what forum you're on?

Chill.

Seriously, chill.

Take a step back and take a good look at what's happening here.

On the one hand, you have a game dev giving modders a level of access to their game that, in the year of our cat 2020, is unexpected. This is great. That the modding tools used are industry-standard tools that would allow modders interested in making games on their own to strike out more easily, or to genuinely put "Experience with UE4" on their resume is also great.
But, on the other hand, you have a game so unpolished that something like "adding IK to mechs" is something a modder had to do, because the original developer did not bother to do it themselves (sidenote: Isn't it curious that Battletech shipped with IK everywhere?). You have a game that is seriously disappointing in the context of the games before it, that shows every sign of being developed half-assed or rushed. This is baaaaad.

Does this good thing cancel out that bad thing? To me, it doesn't. Games that ship in a state where a community needs to pick up the slack to get it to a good place should be unacceptable, regardless of what else the developer does or how much you, personally, like that game.

Also, remember that Battuta's career, just like yours, features modding quite prominently.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 01:52:59 am by The E »
Let there be light
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Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
Why don't you go cram it up your own ass, Batts?  If people are talking this kind of **** in the Discord I need to get in there and set you all straight.

I was able to turn modding into a career, where I have a house and a wife and am about to start a family, and there's some newbies in there and I'm enthusiastic about them taking the first steps on that path, and this is what you have to say?   Do you even remember what forum you're on?

Amazing how we had identical experiences!

Your company crunched my friend half to death then fired her to make more Fortnite so no, I’m not super excited about anyone going into the game industry. (She then ended up at Blizzard and Marvel, where a forged tweet by an Internet rando led to a massive harassment campaign against her.) And I’d absolutely say the same about anyone going to my company.

You don’t need to like video games because they’re on ‘Your’ engine.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
More importantly you can post about them without sounding like a shill.

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
But, on the other hand, you have a game so unpolished that something like "adding IK to mechs" is something a modder had to do, because the original developer did not bother to do it themselves (sidenote: Isn't it curious that Battletech shipped with IK everywhere?). You have a game that is seriously disappointing in the context of the games before it, that shows every sign of being developed half-assed or rushed. This is baaaaad.

I don't disagree that the game was rushed, but I do disagree that the game is 'half-assed' or 'baaaaaad.'  They had to release early, that's all.  This characterization that they're 'halfassing it and relying on modders to fix their game' is coming entirely from hypercritical internet people, most of whom have no idea how a game is made.  They have plans for patching and DLC for months to come to add to their base game.  If you want to look at game launches that were similar, how about No Man's Sky?  I know I avoided that one on release because there was no chance they could ship what they were promising.  Mechwarrior 5 did ship most of what it was promising, and it looks like it has lots of room to grow.

It doesn't surprise me that modders were able to quickly find a lot of easy adds to the game, because it looks like they had a lot planned that they had to cut for time, once you poke around the game files.  Something like adding IK to mechs, as a mod, just requires the modder to hook up the plugin.  Adding it to a game you intend to ship means you have to test and adjust it for each mech, on varied terrain.  I don't doubt they intended to do it, and I expect the mod has all kinds of edge cases where legs go all weird.
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline The E

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
I don't disagree that the game was rushed, but I do disagree that the game is 'half-assed' or 'baaaaaad.'  They had to release early, that's all.  This characterization that they're 'halfassing it and relying on modders to fix their game' is coming entirely from hypercritical internet people, most of whom have no idea how a game is made.

I think I have a pretty good handle on how games are made, thank you. I am calling it half-assed and bad. The game was announced in December 2016, with an original projected release date in 2018. PGI already had years of experience in making a Mechwarrior at that point; there was a huge library of assets that they could draw on.
Basically, once they had finished porting assets from Cry over to UE, they should have been able to get a good head start on making missions and maps. You should be painfully aware of how much of an advantage that can be in game design.
Then the game was delayed. In December 2018, PGI pushed the release date back to September 19, then, in July, to December 19. So, with 3 years of development time, what was the game they shipped? A decent enough skirmish game, an economy and a whole lot of procgen to automatically generate what game designers didn't. A rudimentary story without any character and without any real characters. The contrast to Battletech, which has a design brief that is largely identical to MW5M is stark.

Measured against its kin, MW5M is disappointing. Measured against Battletech, it is downright insulting.

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They have plans for patching and DLC for months to come to add to their base game.

So does Anthem. Them announcing that they have a plan does not mean they will execute that plan.

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If you want to look at game launches that were similar, how about No Man's Sky?

Hah. No. Try again.

See, No Man's Sky was disappointing because it was hyped up beyond reason by the developers and the community. It still shipped in a playable state, it still offered an experience that was fulfilling if you didn't really go into it with preconceptions.

MW5M exists in a different context. It exists in a context where the other MWM games and Battletech exist. These are games that all prominently featured curated content, that all had decent gameplay and rythms. For MW5M to discard all that in favour of what feels like a live-service skeleton is in no way comparable to what happened with NMS.

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Mechwarrior 5 did ship most of what it was promising, and it looks like it has lots of room to grow.

I don't know about you, but I do not buy games based on what they could be 2 years after release. MW5 could become good with a bunch of work, yes. I'd still rather live in a world where PGI cancelled the game because it didn't come together or delayed it further than have it be released in the state it is currently in.

Quote
It doesn't surprise me that modders were able to quickly find a lot of easy adds to the game, because it looks like they had a lot planned that they had to cut for time, once you poke around the game files.  Something like adding IK to mechs, as a mod, just requires the modder to hook up the plugin.  Adding it to a game you intend to ship means you have to test and adjust it for each mech, on varied terrain.  I don't doubt they intended to do it, and I expect the mod has all kinds of edge cases where legs go all weird.

They had 3 ****ing years. They had all the models and all the skeletons ready to go from Day 1. Do not expect me to believe that it takes so long to port something from CryEngine to UE, or to get from that point to having a map generation pipeline set up. More importantly, these are not new problems that require deep research.
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Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
They’re a small studio with no money and limited manpower and I’m sure they were basically taking angle grinders to their faces just to make a minimum viable product. Game dev sucks and the skyrocketing cost of assets and technology (in man-hours if nothing else) means you get less done with an equivalent amount of work than you could back in Mechwarrior’s heyday.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
I am not unsympathetic to the developers and their constraints. Those explain why the game is as it is, but that does not make the game better.
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
I do post with a very positive and understanding perspective sometimes, which could be seen as shilling.  I just see the opposite so much on the internet, I feel the need to speak from a different perspective. 
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
None of you understand game development.

Furthermore, Star citizen is good.
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[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
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Offline Spoon

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
****, wrong thread.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
None of you understand game development.

Furthermore, Star citizen is good.
****, wrong thread.

Congrats, you actually improved the thread tho.  :highfive:

 

Offline Su-tehp

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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
None of you understand game development.

Furthermore, Star citizen is good.
****, wrong thread.

Congrats, you actually improved the thread tho.  :highfive:

 :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries released
Seemed very à propos to me :)