[Stryke 9]

*applause*

[Mad Bomber]

Well said.

[aldo_14]

Israel screwed up big time, IMO....when you (effectively) start regarding civillian casualties as unimportant , you move a step closer to becoming terrorists yourself.

If you can accept killing 15 (which i think the total is now) civillians - most of whom - if not all - are noncombatants as ok, then why not drop a few nukes?  After all, they're only Palestinians.......

Point is, this makes it easy for the Palestinians  to hate Israel... it gives them easy justification for further attacks.

Granted, it's a big kill - the Hamas leader - and he deserved to die for what he's done, or ordered to be done.  But this only makes him further a martyr.  Even using a helicopter with lower yield rockets (as previously) would have been better.

[mikhael]

Something else.

Assassination is bad, just like terrorism is bad.

Civilian casualties are always bad. Pointing at someone else's civilian casualties to say 'well you do it too!' is bad.

Of course, then there's the whole damn situation over there: its just plain bad.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by aldo_14
Even using a helicopter with lower yield rockets (as previously) would have been better.

Thank you.

[Zeronet]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
So... what is a criminal? Does he carry a badge or a special ID? Are you exempt from the human race for shoplifting? When it comes to lawbreaking, I'm a criminal, you're a criminal, everyone we know is a criminal. It's simply impossible to stay fully within the law all your life. We're also civilians. Or is the Civilian a mythical beast, the theoretical innocent, one who only exists after he has been consumed by the dynamite explosion, like a saint?

Use YOUR Common Sense, stop being so technical.

[Zeronet]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
But a criminal is no longer a civilian? Considering the number of car accidents I've been at fault in, I'm certainly a criminal, and I'm positive that you've committed at least one crime, however unconsciously, yourself. As has nearly everyone. There are no civilians, by your definition.

To me, "terrorist" is a term devoid of moral implications. Long before all this Afghan crap started, I was idolizing Che Guevara, the Cuban Revolutionary war hero who, incidentially, engaged in terrorist activities. If you read Bayo's manual on guerilla tactics, it's full of postassium-cholride time bombs, arson tricks, and sabotage. A terrorist is simply one who engages in attacks in order to demoralize the enemy populace or cow them into submission. It's the defining tactic of total war, a term for what every nation in the world now engages in, and the US pioneered in the 1700s.

And yes, I fully approve of... most of the Palestinian's actions. I find bus-bombing, etc. more than a bit distasteful, but recognize the futility of actively engaging the military. However, the Palestinians are the modern day's American Indians- a people being unjustly driven off their land and systematically exterminated, only they are fighting back more strongly this time. I can dig that, and were I Palestinian, I'd be the one on the rooftops fighting back as the Opressor bulldozed my home and all that I know. I still can understand the Israeli perspective and take it when I wish, but my true sympathies lie strongly in the other camp.

It was British land, which we gave to the Jews because a lot of the other countries were trying to kill them(like Germany). Also the PA recoqnises the state of Israel so they cant be fighting due to that, they were offered nearly all the land back Israel captured during the 6 day war...

[Stryke 9]

A British colony. The Palestinian's land. Go tell an Indian that the British had rights to the land they'd wrested from the natives globally. He'll punch you in the face, or, at the least, laugh. Don't be obscene- the colony's interests are not those of the other country. It doesn't matter who it's occupied by, the Palestinians were wrongfully driven from it.

And "almost" all the land. So the masked burglar who busted into your house with a shotgun gives you back every part of your house but the living room and kitchen.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Im sure palestine will say there attacks are to weaken a military or government, and im sure Isreal will say the same thing.

Well then, you sure are wrong. Our attacks are to wipe out terrorisim, plain and simple. The "complicated" part is when a governing body harbors, supports, and encourages terrorism and terrorists, like the PA does.

Originally posted by aldo_14
Israel screwed up big time, IMO....when you (effectively) start regarding civillian casualties as unimportant , you move a step closer to becoming terrorists yourself.

If you can accept killing 15 (which i think the total is now) civillians - most of whom - if not all - are noncombatants as ok, then why not drop a few nukes?  After all, they're only Palestinians.......

No offense Aldo, but that's a bunch of BS, and you should know better. Israel has never regarded civillian casualties as unimportant - I risked my life for that moral standard! Had we not cared, had we been of the mindset of "They're just Palestinians...", we would have done what the US did and carpet bombed Jenin. You think we liked being in there, getting shot at, having fathers and sons (they were reservists) blown to bits?! Of course not!

Originally posted by mikhael
Assassination is bad, just like terrorism is bad.

Civilian casualties are always bad. Pointing at someone else's civilian casualties to say 'well you do it too!' is bad.

Of course, then there's the whole damn situation over there: its just plain bad.

Only point I have a disagreement on is the first one, and only because of its mis-labeling. Assasination is purposefully murdering a governmental head (or government-like organization, etc etc). Killing the head of a terrorist organization isn't true assasination by any means - more like an act of mercy, if you ask me.

[Zeronet]

Actually the said owner of the house attempted to invade and destroy the "Burglars" country, after being pushed back the "Burglar" decided to keep the land they won in a defencive war, then offered most of it back.

This aint about israel, its about the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Most Arabs accept Israels presense now From what i gather.

[Stryke 9]

Mercy for the terrorist? Assassination is assassination. They weren't afraid to use that term when trying to kill Hitler, why now? Is modern politics really that bull****-oriented? Use the words as they're meant to be used, and stop attaching all these damn imaginary moral connotations to things, all of you!

[Stryke 9]

Originally posted by Zeronet
Actually the said owner of the house attempted to invade and destroy the "Burglars" country, after being pushed back the "Burglar" decided to keep the land they won in a defencive war, then offered most of it back.

This aint about israel, its about the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Most Arabs accept Israels presense now From what i gather.

How's that? Did the Palestinians immigrate and boot the Israelis off their land on the basis that it had supposedly been theirs 2000 years ago? Get yer history straight. "British colony" does not mean "Palestinians didn't live there".

[Kazan]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
kill 'em all! Let God sort 'em out!  

[smartass]I'd let god sort them out, but somebody told me he was dead[/smartass]

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by sandwich


Well then, you sure are wrong. Our attacks are to wipe out terrorisim, plain and simple. The "complicated" part is when a governing body harbors, supports, and encourages terrorism and terrorists, like the PA does.



 

Ok and terrorism has no governing body or military? The US attacked against the Taliban to weaken its leadership structure in order to stop terrorism. Isreal attacks a Hamas Leader to stop a military structure to end terrorism.

Look, Terrorism is just a word. A dirty one. Just like we used for German soldiers. We called them Nazi's, not just them but anyone an Axis was a Nazi.

They are still people, only they dont heed the laws of the country they attack. Their war, and attacks are new world stuff. When you fight a war, its who wins that writes history and it doesnt matter how you win. Winning a war is done at any cost, for the moral it must be done right, for the immoral it must be done at any cost. Whoever is left is right.

So yes your attacks are to wipeout Terrorism, ran by many military and government bodies. This you cannot deny, else Hamas leaders and the Taliban as well as Osama Bin Laden would not be targets. They are the leaders, the government the military heads.

Like i said, if you want something done right, do it yourself, lets get our guys in there and fix the problem ourselves or get the hell out of their and not give a damn already. The politics and talk of this gets nowhere. Action must be taken before it gets to the point where the Terrorist have many Allies and start a War or get their hands on a Nuke and send it over here as a present, or worse in the middle east somewhere. It has to end, it will only get worse as time lets on.

[CODEDOG ND]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
Define "terrorism", then.

Have you noticed the recent ads on TV? The ones that say that drug users are all terrorists? Or the misuse of the term in describing Iraq? Exactly. It's a buzzword. Used to have meaning, now it doesn't (at least here). Anyone we don't like is a "terrorist" or "supports terrorists". Lucky George W. McCarthy, it obviously works so well...

I thought McCarthy would call them Communists or Supporters of Communists?

[Stryke 9]

I was using the name to suggest that it's essentially the same thing, hmm?

And when did you assign yourself official forum misser of points?

[CODEDOG ND]

right now.  

I realized your point, just there are better examples that McCarthy.

[Stryke 9]

Less famous, tho. And he's good enough.

[CODEDOG ND]

bleh communism, terrorism, its all in the same ball park.  

[Stryke 9]

You know what the real problem is?

FOREIGNISM!

If there weren't any foreigners, then not one of these things would exist!

(Note: I actually wrote a whole paper on this once, and read it in front of my entire school. It was a huge hit, which just goes to show that mockery is lost on the South)