Author Topic: Valve receives an "F" grade from the Better Business Bureau  (Read 7387 times)

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Re: Valve receives an "F" grade from the Better Business Bureau
Technically yes, you are obligated to install Steam in order to play the game. However, if you were aware of that fact and got it anyways... that makes it "voluntary"

Secondly: "done or given because you want to and not because you are forced to : done or given by choice"
To explain my point of posting the definition of "voluntarily" here, note the key words "done because you want to". Yes, you're obligated (or "forced") to install Steam on your computer to play the game, but if the consumer knew that and went ahead with it... they did so voluntarily

As I said, Voluntarily means you actually have choice.

I can voluntarily buy and play Halo 3.
I cannot voluntarily play Halo 3 on the Xbox 360.  Because the 360 was only platform it was available for, I was obligated to buy one in order to play Halo 3.

IF something is tied to a platform, then playing the game means that in that case the platform is not voluntary

But in spirit of actually answering your question, technically speaking I didn't get Steam to play a game. I got Steam to redeem a two coupons I got for free, one via Valve themselves, and another from an Unreal Engine Level Design textbook

Portal and UT3

At the time, I already owned Portal for PS3 on Orange Box and my computer couldn't run either games regardless
(The Valve Portal code being part of a promotion they did which I went sure, why not. I knew I needed to download Steam, but went ahead anyways because I made a voluntary choice to get it)

Yes, this would count as voluntary.
But hey, not bad marketing huh? For the price of giving someone a free, lower priced game, they get the client on the computer, probably permanently.  And since then you've probably bought tens, or hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of games on the client, making Steam/Valve a good sum in return.  Even if someone only spent 100 dollars on Steam, giving them a free 10 dollar game costs them pretty much nothing beyond bandwidth and makes 33 dollars in exchange.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 03:55:07 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 
Re: Valve receives an "F" grade from the Better Business Bureau
And here's a simple test that PC gamers who use Steam can ask themselves.

#1 Do you feel that you could be a gamer on PC without using Steam?
#2 If the answer is no, do you expect to spend more money on games on Steam in the future?

And if the answer to #2 is yes, then the person is basically trapped. Trapped in a cycle of playing on Steam and continuing to spend money on Steam. Perpetually, never-ending etcetera.

 

Offline deathfun

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Re: Valve receives an "F" grade from the Better Business Bureau
Quote
As I said, Voluntarily means you actually have choice.

I can voluntarily buy and play Halo 3.
I cannot voluntarily play Halo 3 on the Xbox 360.  Because the 360 was only platform it was available for, I was obligated to buy one in order to play Halo 3.

If you voluntarily bought Halo 3, you already knew it was for Xbox 360 unless you're an ill informed consumer and don't understand the concept of exclusives
Thus you are aware of what you're doing and thus agree with it
If you didn't, you wouldn't buy the game

That's not forcing you to do anything you don't want to do, since at any point you can say "no" and not do it
Key thing to note here being, is that the consequences of not doing something here, are just that you don't get to play the game - a concept that's been around since the dawn of time. This is not a new thing, exclusives

But I can see the point you're trying to convey, which is that all games should be available anywhere anytime without restriction because you disagree with the concept of exclusives. To make an exclusive is to take away your choice of platform and creating an "obligation" you don't want

You want absolute choice. And I suppose neither or us are wrong in terms of how we view what a choice is (since viewing something as voluntary or as an obligation is a matter of subjective interpretation. I like my job, thus it doesn't feel like I'm obligated to do the tasks at hand, despite if I don't do them I get fired and lose my job. Your argument there is that doing that job is not voluntary because of the obligation is order to keep the job. My point is, feeling obligated and being obligated are two different things. Related, yes, but different in the sense that if you don't feel obligated, you feel free, like you're making your own choice)

Though if you really want to think about your definition of voluntarily doing something, we are obligated to live. We don't have a choice to live because somewhere down the road we are obligated to drink water or eat food in order to live. Nothing we do in life is actually voluntary as there is an obligation somewhere making whatever choice we make, actually not so voluntary

Examples: I am obligated to breathe, drink and eat in order to live
I make a choice to get a job, but I am obligated to work to their standards or I lose the job
I make a choice to live in a city, but I am obligated to pay money in order to do so which requires me to get the job that I choose which see example two
I make a choice to buy a game, but I am obligated to get a system which can play it, whether it be an Xbox, PS, Nintendo, or PC
I make a choice to buy an exclusive game, which makes me obligated to get a particular system

All of these are choices, but all of this end with an obligation to do something. Does that make them all inherently not a choice?

Doing something voluntarily is best described as doing something while being aware of the obligations that it carries with it. Otherwise, you can choose not to accept the obligations that your choice carries with it, and thus you don't choose to buy the game, work that job, or live your life
"No"

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: Valve receives an "F" grade from the Better Business Bureau
You can always choose not to buy or play any games.
That alone makes it voluntary.

#1 Do you feel that you could be a gamer on PC without using Steam?

The answer to this is Yes.
There are plenty of PC games not tied to Steam, some which are very very popular, and are all some people play.
Steam does not have anything remotely close to a monopoly on the PC gaming market. They're just quite a convenient place to get them.
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Valve receives an "F" grade from the Better Business Bureau
Another example is that a few weeks back I was playing Crysis from a CD/DVD I bought years ago. And while playing it, I got dropped out of the game to be shown an XP window saying that my computer would automatically restart in 15 minutes as a part of an automatic update.  That feature is the single most idiotic update function ever devised by man; forcing a restart in the middle of anything.  Did no one at Microsoft consider that you know, someone might be ****ing busy and in the middle of something when that window popped up? And rather than restart I told it to get lost, and continued to tell it to get lost every couple minutes as I continued to play the game for another 2 hours or so.
You know you can tell it to put it off for 4 hours instead? It's right there in the popup. Myself, I went and disabled this "feature", so that even if it tells me it's going to restart itself, it won't, because I denied it permission to do so.

I've never seen any delay for four hours option. I'm still using XP. Looks like this except the button isn't grayed out.



By later it means about "20 minutes" later

Forcing any restart is stupid anyway. Many people will turn off their computers and thus "restart" naturally.


http://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/555444


Quote
It is always recommended to have a good backup of Windows registry before dealing with it. To know more about backing up Windows registry, visit:
 
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=322756
 
Go to registry editor and navigate to the following registry key:
 
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE \Software\Policies \Microsoft\Windows \WindowsUpdate\AU
 
Change the "NoAutoRebootWithLoggedOnUsers" DWord value to the required number.
 
0 = False (Allow auto-reboot)
1 = True (Disallow auto-reboot)
 
Save and restart Windows Operating system.

Article ID: 555444 - Last Review: August 30, 2005 - Revision: 1.0
APPLIES TO
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Microsoft Windows XP Professional
Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2002
Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 1
Keywords:
kbpubmvp kbpubtypecca kbhowto KB555444

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Valve receives an "F" grade from the Better Business Bureau
I must say jr2, for a knowledgeable person a regedit is a pain, to the non technical.... RUN FOR THE HILLS
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Offline jr2

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Re: Valve receives an "F" grade from the Better Business Bureau
Err... better use it more often, then. :nod: Triple-check yourself before changing anything -- watch where you are on the bottom of the Regedit window (see pic), but... System Restore will work in case of errors unless you take a sawed off shotgun to the registry with your delete button.  Even then it would just be a matter of restoring old registry hive file versions using another operating system from a CD {say, F4UBCD or Hiren's}  or similar. 

Windows Registry file locations

In this instance, I'm looking at one location in the registry that acts to start applications with the OS, similar to the way the StartUp folder does, and this is in the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run   (HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE is aka HKLM)




It's not that hard, really, it's just people freak out because it's very powerful and doesn't hold your hand.  If you were just learning a PC, you would probably feel the same way about the Control Panel.  ;)

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Valve receives an "F" grade from the Better Business Bureau
which is why I triple check every change lol
Minister of Interstellar Affairs Sol Union - Retired
quote General Battuta - "FRED is canon!"
Contact me at [email protected]
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Re: Valve receives an "F" grade from the Better Business Bureau
You can always choose not to buy or play any games.
That alone makes it voluntary.

#1 Do you feel that you could be a gamer on PC without using Steam?

The answer to this is Yes.
There are plenty of PC games not tied to Steam, some which are very very popular, and are all some people play.
Steam does not have anything remotely close to a monopoly on the PC gaming market. They're just quite a convenient place to get them.

75% of all PC games sold online are sold through Steam.
Monopoly isn't only about having absolute control, it's also about having enough control to manipulate the prices and if one argues that Steam sales already manipulate the market them the monopoly may already be in place.


But I can see the point you're trying to convey, which is that all games should be available anywhere anytime without restriction because you disagree with the concept of exclusives. To make an exclusive is to take away your choice of platform and creating an "obligation" you don't want

I don't disagree with exclusives. I disagree with the trend of turning the PC into a closed platform wherein so many games are tied to a single entity.  The same client that is on the Mac, Linux and now trying to enter into the console market after previous generations of consoles denied them access (specifically the 360).   Nothing is more frightening than having the sum of both PC/Mac/Linux and console gaming all tied to a single client. I don't believe any company should have that amount of power.

 

Offline deathfun

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Re: Valve receives an "F" grade from the Better Business Bureau
Quote
75% of all PC games sold online are sold through Steam.

Citation required

Quote
I don't disagree with exclusives

Then don't use an exclusive as an example. It gives the wrong impression

Quote
Nothing is more frightening than having the sum of both PC/Mac/Linux and console gaming all tied to a single client.

How is this frightening? That and technically speaking, I can already use my laptop and Steam to game away in the living room (effectively replacing my PS3) through HDMI connections. Steam Box just makes it a little easier

Quote
I don't believe any company should have that amount of power.

I will then presume you don't really like monopolies in general
"No"

 
Re: Valve receives an "F" grade from the Better Business Bureau
Quote
75% of all PC games sold online are sold through Steam.

Citation required

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-11-04/valve-lines-up-console-partners-in-challenge-to-microsoft-sony

Estimated they generated 1.1 billion in 2012

"Valve captures 75 percent of the global market for digital PC games through its Steam store, researcher IHS Screen Digest has estimated. While the company doesn’t disclose sales, digital distribution of PC games this year will comprise $5.5 billion of the $21.4 billion computer games market, according to DFC Intelligence, another researcher. IHS estimates Valve generated $1.1 billion in 2012 from full-game downloads."

Article Written November 2013

Their market share may be even higher this year.

Not only that, but digital sales for PC is estimated at 92% of all PC games sold:

http://www.pcr-online.biz/news/read/digital-sales-make-up-92-of-global-game-revenues/034551

Thus if the figures are accurate, 70% of all games for PC are sold/downloaded via Steam.

Quote
Quote
I don't disagree with exclusives

Then don't use an exclusive as an example. It gives the wrong impression

I didn't. I used an exclusive in an analogy.



Quote
Quote
Nothing is more frightening than having the sum of both PC/Mac/Linux and console gaming all tied to a single client.

How is this frightening? That and technically speaking, I can already use my laptop and Steam to game away in the living room (effectively replacing my PS3) through HDMI connections. Steam Box just makes it a little easier

Because I don't trust corporations. They're out to make money, and the only thing keeping them comparatively honest is competition.



Quote

I will then presume you don't really like monopolies in general

Who does? Power corrupts.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 11:28:20 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline deathfun

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Re: Valve receives an "F" grade from the Better Business Bureau
Quote
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-11-04/valve-lines-up-console-partners-in-challenge-to-microsoft-sony

Estimated they generated 1.1 billion in 2012

Not bad

Quote
I didn't. I used an exclusive in an analogy.

Analogy that looked very close to an example, but I'll concede that

Quote
Because I don't trust corporations. They're out to make money, and the only thing keeping them comparatively honest is competition.

Uh... isn't the point of a company/corporation to make money? That's pretty well their main prerogative, to ensure profits across the board
Competition doesn't keep companies honest, it keeps them competitive. Laws keep them honest, and there are laws in place to keep companies from doing shady things like price-fixing.
http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/h_00112.html

Steam also does not set the prices, the developers of the games they distribute set the prices
Sidenote: Steam encroaching on the areas of the Xbox, PS and Nintendo world is adding to the competition, not taking away from it

Quote
Who does? Power corrupts.

And generally when someone abuses their power, people come up and do something about it. If you feel Steam is abusing that power, immediately stop using it, create a movement protesting against it, and see if it catches on

However, I haven't seen them abuse that power and are simply trying to gain more profits, something most companies try to do.
"No"

 
Re: Valve receives an "F" grade from the Better Business Bureau
And generally when someone abuses their power, people come up and do something about it. If you feel Steam is abusing that power, immediately stop using it, create a movement protesting against it, and see if it catches on

However, I haven't seen them abuse that power and are simply trying to gain more profits, something most companies try to do.

Getting European Users to waive their legal rights isn't an abuse of power?

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: Valve receives an "F" grade from the Better Business Bureau
The whole thread

Apparently I wasn't clear enough.  Akalabeth, this is not the place to get on your soapbox about Steam, and I thought I'd made that clear (and hoped my earlier posting in this thread might help).  Apparently I did not.

So, how's this for clear?  Thread locked.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: Valve receives an "F" grade from the Better Business Bureau
Hey Akalabeth if you want to ***** at me about censoring you (lol) and want a response it probably helps to not have me on ignore.

Thread's still locked though.