Author Topic: Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node  (Read 2198 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node
Are there any theories of why the Shivans invaded Ross 128 first, and then never made the jump to Delta Serpentis, then Sol? I know that the Real Life answer is that is would make for a very short FS1, but does anyone have some ideas?

Logically, it would seem that there are only two reasons they would not use the Ross 128 - Delta Serpentis jump node: either they are unable to use it or they are unwilling to use it. It is unlikely that they are unable to use the node, since it has been established that the Shivans use lots more nodes than the GTVA considers safe for travel. Which only leaves the possibility that they are unwilling to use the node - why? What about the Ross 128- Delta Serpentis node would scare or otherwise put off the Shivans?

 

Offline Droid803

  • Trusted poster of legit stuff
  • 213
  • /人 ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 人\ Do you want to be a Magical Girl?
    • Skype
    • Steam
Re: Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node
Perhaps they did not know where the Terran homeworld was when they were in Ross 128, or perhaps Vasuda Prime was a higher priority target for them.
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 

Offline Vellos0x1

  • 23
  • What goes here?
    • Steam
Re: Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node
Probably they overlooked the node and search elsewhere

OR

Their main objective is the annihilation of the Vasudans after they received some help from the ancients 8000 years ago, but since the terrans help the vasudan, the shivans decided to also annihilate the terrans, we know how the story ends anyway




 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • I want to be here less...
Re: Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node
Perhaps they did not know where the Terran homeworld was when they were in Ross 128, or perhaps Vasuda Prime was a higher priority target for them.

Quote from: Command Briefing for Clash of the Titans, stage 1
* GTD Bastion
* Sirius System
* 3/29/35

The Lucifer

The Shivans have finally determined the location of the Sol system.  The Lucifer has moved into position here in Sirius for the subspace jump to Delta Serpentis.

From Delta Serpentis, she will certainly  make the jump to Sol to destroy our homeworld.

How the GTA knows this is unknown, but that's the best canon explaination we got...

As far as non-canon goes, the Shivans place great value on the control of jump nodes (as evidenced by the Command Brief-cutscene) as such they probably went after the most highly travelled nodes first. Considering that the T-V war at the beginning of FS1 is taking place closer to the Vasuda-system than Sol, it is highly likely that most node-travel would have happened there (due to the location of the front lines).
Related to that it is also possible that the Shivans went after ships frist, which too were concentrated at the front lines, which again were closer to Vasuda Prime than to Earth.

(Of course that assumtion is based on a supply chain for the GTA that distributes from local centers (which in turn could be supplies by another more central location like Sol), which would have more intensive ship travel at the front lines - e.g. only one convoy is required to get supplies from Sol to Antares, but the distribution in the Antares-system would require multiple convoys from the local supply center to all units in the field)
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 05:31:19 am by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Goober5000

  • HLP Loremaster
  • 214
    • Goober5000 Productions
Re: Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node
As far as non-canon goes, the Shivans place great value on the control of jump nodes (as evidenced by the Command Brief-cutscene) as such they probably went after the most highly travelled nodes first. Considering that the T-V war at the beginning of FS1 is taking place closer to the Vasuda-system than Sol, it is highly likely that most node-travel would have happened there (due to the location of the front lines).
Related to that it is also possible that the Shivans went after ships frist, which too were concentrated at the front lines, which again were closer to Vasuda Prime than to Earth.

I like this explanation.  It's reasonable and it fits with the in-game logic.


I know that the Real Life answer is that is would make for a very short FS1

Yes, but even more specifically, the Real Life answer is most likely that Volition had not nailed down the node map layout (or even how jump nodes work) until fairly late in the development of the game.  Remember, Ross 128 is supposed to be a remote system.  If you ignore jump node movements, the Command Briefings paint a picture of the Shivans showing up on the fringes of known space and moving inexorably toward the core systems.

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node
Shivans are efficacious but not optimal.

 

Offline procdrone

  • Formerly TheHound
  • 29
  • Balance breaker! Thats me!
    • Steam
Re: Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node
I sometimes don't understand why all the people are trying so hard to understand Shivans, their tactics, reasons and motives. They are aliens beyond our understanding... Even V pissed on them. They are the bad guys, shoot them. Thats all
--Did it! It's RELEASED! VeniceMirror Thread--

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node
Because you can think really hard about Shivan behavior, use all the canon evidence, and come up with awesome fiction which drives good storytelling and engages the kind of players who love to have their minds blown!

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node
There aren't just two reasons as you stated, the third reason is right up there in the title. I'm with 0rph3u5 here, they went first to the Vasudans, then they went to Sol. Clearly, in their "mind", the Vasudans were more of an urgent threat than the humans were. Given how they managed to get their **** together after Vasudacide, perhaps they were right.

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node
If you use a Shivan model with classical smarts, maybe they knew the Ancients had some dirt on them and intentionally targeted the species with the best chance of digging it up. We can call this the Taylor Swift/Katy Perry Feud Theory.

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node
Yep, they did have dirt on them and they did dig it up, literally.

Do I get cookies for using the word "literally" correctly?

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node
Literally a good post.

 
Re: Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node
Are there any theories of why the Shivans invaded Ross 128 first, and then never made the jump to Delta Serpentis, then Sol? I know that the Real Life answer is that is would make for a very short FS1, but does anyone have some ideas?

Logically, it would seem that there are only two reasons they would not use the Ross 128 - Delta Serpentis jump node: either they are unable to use it or they are unwilling to use it. It is unlikely that they are unable to use the node, since it has been established that the Shivans use lots more nodes than the GTVA considers safe for travel. Which only leaves the possibility that they are unwilling to use the node - why? What about the Ross 128- Delta Serpentis node would scare or otherwise put off the Shivans?

They targeted the Vasudans first since they started the Terran-Vasudan conflict.

 

Offline Vrets

  • 27
Re: Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node
Literally a good post.

Nooo! Don't jinx it!

They targeted the Vasudans first since they started the Terran-Vasudan conflict.

It seems unlikely that the Shivans knew (or cared about) who started a war 14 years prior to their arrival. In any case, the ending monologue for FS1 heavily implies that the Terrans were the aggressors in the 14-year war.

Moreover, if the Shivans have a keen sense of justice and kill the aggressors first, why didn't the Shivans zerg rush to Polaris in the second great war? :p
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 10:11:21 pm by Vrets »

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Re: Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node
It really doesn't matter to the Shivans who they go after first; the Lucifer isn't under any threat they know of. They have the time to do whatever they want, as far as they know.

It's also possible the Ancients connection matters, but not in the way anyone here is proposing; the Lucifer actually departed Ross 128 on a direct route for Altair on the assumption their purge had been insufficiently thorough last time, and only realized in transit that they were fighting some other group or groups. Then they diverted to Vasuda Prime.

There aren't just two reasons as you stated, the third reason is right up there in the title. I'm with 0rph3u5 here, they went first to the Vasudans, then they went to Sol. Clearly, in their "mind", the Vasudans were more of an urgent threat than the humans were. Given how they managed to get their **** together after Vasudacide, perhaps they were right.

Not necessarily. Given the existence of the Avenger and Tempest early in the campaign in Terran hands, and the lack of similar apparent Vasudan weapons, it's possible they simply took the path of least resistance. Even if the Lucifer itself isn't under threat their other stuff is.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

  

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • I want to be here less...
Re: Shivan ignorance of Ross 128-Delta Serpentis node
They are aliens beyond our understanding... Even V pissed on them. They are the bad guys, shoot them. Thats all

Uhm, no...
There are many blanks concerning the Shivans, true. But that is exactly where the fascination comes from, to fill the void yourself - you don't need to be a 20th century existencialist to find the absense of something more appealing than its prescence (because the absense of something allows you to imagine anything in its place).


As to are the Shivans the bad guys? - I am pretty sure the canon is not explict about that. Esspecially considering I got a good campaign-premise out of the idea that "The Shivans are EVIL(tm of the GTVA 2345+), so we need the GTVA". The Shivan threat in FS2 is basically the only justification given for the existance of the GTVA and its appearently high military budget (see thr Collossus-cutscene - the long construction time of the Collie is either a sign of a project being larger by the order of magnitued than the economic base that supports it - there is canon allusions to that to, see Enter the Maelstom - or of a political will to drag out the programm in order to fund/justify other initatives/expences)

Are there any theories of why the Shivans invaded Ross 128 first, and then never made the jump to Delta Serpentis, then Sol? I know that the Real Life answer is that is would make for a very short FS1, but does anyone have some ideas?

Logically, it would seem that there are only two reasons they would not use the Ross 128 - Delta Serpentis jump node: either they are unable to use it or they are unwilling to use it. It is unlikely that they are unable to use the node, since it has been established that the Shivans use lots more nodes than the GTVA considers safe for travel. Which only leaves the possibility that they are unwilling to use the node - why? What about the Ross 128- Delta Serpentis node would scare or otherwise put off the Shivans?

They targeted the Vasudans first since they started the Terran-Vasudan conflict.

It's never canonically stated that the Vasudans started the T-V war, the inciting incident is given as a failure to follow Vasudan protocol but nothing else is given. The situation is easily comparable to the beginning of World War 1 (or "the Great War" as its contemporaries called it): the assasination of Arch-Duke Franz-Ferdinant in Sarajevo did not start World War 1 but provided the spark that blew up the powder keg that was early 20th century Europe.
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."