[The E]

HLP, show me your love by buying me jpg's: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15707-V-Day-Sale-Love-Is-In-The-Air-and-Space

This Valentine’s Day, we’ve got love and rockets! What better time to introduce that special someone to the wonders of Star Citizen? To that end, we’ve created a special offer that focuses on ships that let you take on the galaxy together. From the stylish 85x runabout (perfect for a romantic evening watching the traffic at Port Olisar) to the massive Starfarer Gemini tanker (room for the whole family… and then some!), we have multi-crew ships for every occasion — plus special discounts on two-packs!

Not quite ready to commit? We’re also giving you (and your loved ones) the opportunity to try Star Citizen for free! Just click HERE, use the code SHARETHELOVE and you’ll receive access to a multi-crew Constellation Andromeda to test fly through Sunday, February 20th. Ready to bring a friend to Arena Commander, Star Marine, Crusader and beyond? A limited number of discount starter packages are also available below. Sale runs through February 28, 2017 or while supplies last.

Thinking about getting serious? Nothing says ‘I care’ like the rugged Aegis Vanguard deep space fighter, a favorite among long range mercenary pilots and well-armed explorers alike. With firepower and the ability to get you and your co-pilot out of the most dangerous situations, the twin-boom Vanguard design is a favorite from Earth to the frontier.

By popular request, we are also making available the Battlefield Upgrade Kits (BUKs) for the Vanguard line, which allow captains to swap between variants on a single chassis. Please note that these upgrades are not available in the current alpha build of Star Citizen; their functionality will be added in a future patch.

[Lorric]

Coming soon, WOD JPGs. $250 each!

Coming soon, WOD Forum Game 2! Entry fee begins at a special introductory price of $1,000. Buy additional fleets and perks at reasonable prices to get a leg up on your opposition!

[Aesaar]

Guy ended up not getting banned.





Discouraging people from buying into SC is a worse crime than molesting children, apparently.

[Lorric]

Well, I'd rather they were into Star Citizen than children. Especially if it grows into the all-consuming obsession that Star Citizen seems to be for some people. Though if the game ever got released, they might soon lose their fondness for it, since they might as well be flying around with a huge bullseye painted on their ship if they've made it known they're a pedophile.

[666maslo666]

"apparent pedophile like related porn" can mean anything from outright child porn photos to those anime drawings with apparently underage characters, or legal porn of the young teen variety. If it was the latter, then a 7 day ban is entirely reasonable. Goon trolls are certainly a worse threat for a forum than anime child porn drawings.

[Luis Dias]

I agree with you Maslo, but the conversation up there is just ****ing hilarious.

[Lorric]

I also thought the goons would indeed be the greater threat to that community after thinking about it, because one group is actively out to do damage to that community and one group is not. And also that that could mean anything, and it's not something I'm interested in going to look and see in case it is the awful variety of the kind which someone should be banned for for uploading.

[Phantom Hoover]

i'm not saying hitler was a saint but he wasn't a goon, you know?

[General Battuta]

goons have a rigorous procedure for dealing with pedophiles

1. make them a moderator
2. realize they're a pedophile

[Luis Dias]

Goon pedophile nazis are the worst thou.

[Spoon]

Coming soon, WOD JPGs. $250 each!

Coming soon, WOD Forum Game 2! Entry fee begins at a special introductory price of $1,000. Buy additional fleets and perks at reasonable prices to get a leg up on your opposition!

Obligatory repost:

[Lorric]

I forgot about that!

[Dragon]

Economics 101: If there are people willing to buy, there will be people willing to sell. Nothing amoral about that, just business. If people want to buy JPGs, gold-plated skins and whatnot, well, it's their money and they know what they're getting.

[Luis Dias]

That's actually.... what amoral means. You meant immoral.

Thing is, we know how humans function, and thus this is well understood as basic exploitation technique. The Free Market isn't an absolute truth, Dragon. There are things that are sold and bought which are immoral. This is just an example of it.

[Colonol Dekker]

Thus means "in this way".

You used it wrong.

[Aesaar]

Goon trolls are certainly a worse threat for a forum than anime child porn drawings.

You say that, but Something Awful is a much, much, much nicer place than the RSI forums.

[Dragon]

That's actually.... what amoral means. You meant immoral.

Thing is, we know how humans function, and thus this is well understood as basic exploitation technique. The Free Market isn't an absolute truth, Dragon. There are things that are sold and bought which are immoral. This is just an example of it.

Yeah, sorry. These terms are used interchangeably so bloody often that they got me doing it. Good catch.

TBH, I don't think it's immoral. If you classify selling fancy pictures as wrong, what about paper greeting cards, posters, merchandise, autographs and other stuff like that? Is it also immoral to print out a fancy picture (since that's what many posters are these days) and sell it for many times the price of ink and paper it took to create it?

Sure, there are things bought and sold that are immoral, but for most part, these are things that shouldn't even exist. SC merchandise isn't one of these things (unless, of course, you're a die-hard hater). Sure, it's exploitation, but if someone essentially agrees to be exploited, is it really wrong? Nobody is forcing them to buy those things, the way out is wide open and there is no physical addiction. Someone dumb or obsessed enough to pay for them deserves everything he gets. Assuming these things are created by paid employees, the choice is to have them available for money or not make them at all. Since people want these things and want more of them (to the point they're willing to pay), why not go with the latter option?

[Luis Dias]

Exploitation is deeply immoral, except for BDSM-type of exploits, you know, fetiches.

It is not illegal. But everyone should feel bad for doing it. They should not sleep well.

The reason why your demand and supply argument is wrong is that you take it dogmatically to be right, or at least not immoral. It's the current overwhelming ideology, wherein anything that the market does, it's not immoral, because there's supply and demand between human agents. Except this is not true. Con artists do this all the time, providing "services" like mind reading and other supernatural shenanigans for a lot of money. It matters not if they are lying according to this market logic (how can you even know that without telepathy), it matters merely that there is a kind of a service provided and that there are always people giving these guys money for it. So it's not immoral, right?

No, there is such a thing as taking advantage of people's good will, and then there's taking advantage on the order of magnitude that Star Citizen has deployed, which is staggering.

The only way such a logic could prevail would be if we defined human beings as being perfectly rational at all times, careless amoral nihilistic beings who only care for market signals and so on. Perhaps that's your personal goal and I'm even inclined to believe in this, but it isn't mine and I can assure you it's not where the overwhelming majority's aspirations go.

[Dragon]

So you classify all fortune tellers, supposed psychics and the like as con artists? I don't think it's right, though I can see why you could think so. I believe that whether this sort of thing is moral or not depends on intentions behind it. Someone who sells prophecies knowing that they're just making it up is definitely immoral. On the other hand, someone who genuinely believes that these prophecies will come true aren't doing anything immoral, strictly speaking (though he may be deluded, but that's another thing). Lying doesn't matter for the market (indeed, pretty lies are in very high demand), but it makes a world of difference when it comes to morality. It also doesn't matter whether anyone but the deceiver in question knows about the deception.

I don't see SC as taking advantage of anyone's goodwill at this point. They're selling these things to make money, that much should be obvious by this point. Moreover, they don't deceive customers (what con men you mentioned do). You get exactly what you paid for. If you're dumb enough to pay for a picture, well, you've got a picture. Protecting good people from deception is fine, but protecting idiots from their own idiocy is not.

Of course, that's about selling cards, not the rest of their development strategy. Though here, I think their situation is similar to that fairground fortune teller example. They're the firmest believers of the humbug they peddle. Call them stupid if you will, but this is not really immoral.

Also, I hope you noticed what your argument does with any and all religions. This is not a criticism, but rather an interesting observation on how all the above matters relate to the problem of religious belief. SC has, for many people, pretty much become a religion (it's not alone in this, but a rather notorious example). Just what is the difference between believing Chris Roberts will make his game and that Jesus Christ can keep you from coming to harm? At least the former is alive and still working on it. Of course, if you're against religion, you're killing two birds with one stone.

[The E]

I don't see SC as taking advantage of anyone's goodwill at this point. They're selling these things to make money, that much should be obvious by this point. Moreover, they don't deceive customers (what con men you mentioned do). You get exactly what you paid for. If you're dumb enough to pay for a picture, well, you've got a picture. Protecting good people from deception is fine, but protecting idiots from their own idiocy is not.

No, you don't. At this point, and I can't believe you haven't noticed it yet, they're selling a promise of future gameplay. Not actual gameplay, not even a concrete vision of what the gameplay will be, just a promise that at some point, mining really will be fun (to pick a random example).

They have also so far failed to meet their own expectations. They've made not a single shipping date, and what gameplay they have delivered has been unbalanced, bug-ridden and above all, very pedestrian in nature.

"Roberts et al are taking advantage of people's generosity" is the nice way to put it. What is actually happening is that they're taking advantage of people's gullibility. Just because people let themselves be charmed into throwing money at this project doesn't mean that what CIG is doing is morally right.

Of course, that's about selling cards, not the rest of their development strategy. Though here, I think their situation is similar to that fairground fortune teller example. They're the firmest believers of the humbug they peddle. Call them stupid if you will, but this is not really immoral.

Predatory marketing strategies are bad, no matter why you pursue them. Selling people their own dreams is never a moral or ethical choice for a business to make, no matter how deeply convinced people are that what they're doing is right.

Also, I hope you noticed what your argument does with any and all religions. This is not a criticism, but rather an interesting observation on how all the above matters relate to the problem of religious belief. SC has, for many people, pretty much become a religion (it's not alone in this, but a rather notorious example). Just what is the difference between believing Chris Roberts will make his game and that Jesus Christ can keep you from coming to harm? At least the former is alive and still working on it. Of course, if you're against religion, you're killing two birds with one stone.

The main difference is that you do not need to pay an entrance fee to join a religion (well, most of them, anyway), and seeing how most religions actually promote things that are altruistic and benefitial to their communities, it's hard to find fault with those who do give their money or time to those religions.
It's quite a bit different when we're talking about a strictly commercial venture like this.