Author Topic: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.  (Read 102134 times)

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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
How about the fact that the Avenger was according to stats flat-out the best weapon and if you took anything else you were less effective?

Quoting for truth. The only other primary I use in FS1 is the Banshee, and that's only when I'm sure I'll be facing lots of shivan fighters, otherwise you better go for the Avenger, as the Prom's pitiful shield damage, lower fire rate and higher energy usage makes it underwhelming in comparison.

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
I always thought that the Avenger had a problem with shield damage (hence pairing it with Flail). The Banshee was always my favorite, with Prom being a close second (it made a wonderful capship killer). But then, you're mostly fighting the Shivans in FS1, with only a few mission that have Vasudans as primary enemies. Flying a Herc, I always used a Banshee in the lower slot (for killing fighters) and Prom S in the 4-gun bank (for maximum anti-capship DPS). I suppose the Avenger might've been superior against the Vasudan fighters.
Make and play (on insane) a test mission and put it on bomber turrets and enemy fighters.  Try to score kills with your primaries.
Bomber turrets I can agree with. As I said, they don't fire the same way as primaries do. I would expect them to be trouble. Having them mounted on a fighter with low agility, however (or a bomber), could make them manageable. Alternatively, an agile but flimsy fighter that could be easily taken out with missiles (Morning Star doesn't interfere with your turning ability, IIRC). I really wonder how it worked in multiplayer, where it somehow managed to be commonplace, despite the supposed "anti-fun" effect.

 

Offline BirdofPrey

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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
The Avenger has the highest average damage which makes it good for everything, and also boasts a good volume of fire.
The Prometheus has higher DPS vs hull, but with the lower shield damage, it will take longer to destroy a fully shielded target which is compounded by the fact Shivans have low hull HP but high shield HP.  Banshee has the highest shield damage of any weapon that still does hull damage, and matches nicely with the shield/hull HP split Shivans have, but the high energy requirement makes sustained fire difficult and only two fighters (Hercules and Valkyrie) can actually mount it.

Theoretically, using a Flail, Banshee or S-Breaker to take down shields and then swapping to a Prometheus would let you take down targets most quickly, but that's not so easy in practice against the smaller, more maneuverable fighters, and if you also need to take a disruptor, isn't an option.  That tends to leave the Avenger as the most useful primary followed by the Banshee when taken alone.
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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
The Avenger also sounds so nice when firing.  :D

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
The Avenger also sounds so nice when firing.  :D
No FS1 weapon sounds nice when firing.  FS1 had awful sound design.

tss tss tss tss tss tss


I always thought that the Avenger had a problem with shield damage (hence pairing it with Flail). The Banshee was always my favorite, with Prom being a close second (it made a wonderful capship killer). But then, you're mostly fighting the Shivans in FS1, with only a few mission that have Vasudans as primary enemies. Flying a Herc, I always used a Banshee in the lower slot (for killing fighters) and Prom S in the 4-gun bank (for maximum anti-capship DPS). I suppose the Avenger might've been superior against the Vasudan fighters.
  The Avenger does more shield damage than the Prometheus and nearly identical hull damage.  It also has a lower power draw, longer range, and higher velocity.  It's better.  There is absolutely no reason in FS1 to take any weapon other than the Avenger and maybe the Banshee.


Quote
Bomber turrets I can agree with. As I said, they don't fire the same way as primaries do. I would expect them to be trouble. Having them mounted on a fighter with low agility, however (or a bomber), could make them manageable. Alternatively, an agile but flimsy fighter that could be easily taken out with missiles (Morning Star doesn't interfere with your turning ability, IIRC). I really wonder how it worked in multiplayer, where it somehow managed to be commonplace, despite the supposed "anti-fun" effect.
Or, even better, you could just turn it into a weapon that doesn't suck the fun from combat when you stick it on enemies.  You're devoting a lot of effort into thinking up way to keep this weapon's gimmick and I don't understand why.  It's not even an interesting gimmick.

And who gives a **** about FS2 multiplayer?  The issues with FS2's netcode means the meta there is nowhere near the same as it is in singleplayer, and no one is designing multiplayer mods.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 09:14:43 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline The E

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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
Getting bounced around by morning stars in multi is also not fun.
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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
No FS1 weapon sounds nice when firing.  FS1 had awful sound design.

tss tss tss tss tss tss

... okay, you have a point. I think it sounds nice when compared with everything else.

 
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
it's better than the new balor sound effect at least
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Offline Aesaar

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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
it's better than the new balor sound effect at least
If you have ideas for a better one, I'm all ears.  Seriously, I've looked for one but have found nothing suitable.  I'm very open to a replacement.

 
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
I don't really know why you replaced the old sound, to be honest. It at least had an impact.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
Wasn't the old sound the Shivan Light Laser? I think it got cut for being kind of shrill.

 

Offline Hades

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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
I really wonder how it worked in multiplayer, where it somehow managed to be commonplace, despite the supposed "anti-fun" effect.
It wasn't despite of that feature but because of it that it became so commonplace in multiplayer. How can the enemy player even fire back if they're busy being bounced around?

Generally speaking if something is being taken 50%-75% over everything else in a game you've also run into balancing issues as well. Sometimes, from stats or from design; the latter of which is the case here, as the Morningstar's stats were very underwhelming.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 02:29:45 pm by Hades »
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Offline Dragon

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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
On the other hand, it had no "house rule". To prohibit it. From what I read, Infyrno and EMP (the latter being subject to similar criticism when given to AI) were not commonly used precisely because getting shot by them wasn't fun. Why was the Morning Star different? If it was so "not fun" why didn't it end in the same basket as Infyrno?
The Avenger does more shield damage than the Prometheus and nearly identical hull damage.  It also has a lower power draw, longer range, and higher velocity.  It's better.  There is absolutely no reason in FS1 to take any weapon other than the Avenger and maybe the Banshee.
Fair enough, so perhaps Avenger could use a nerf to both stats. I didn't use it because I tend to believe loadout screen stats at the time I played FS1, I suppose.
And who gives a **** about FS2 multiplayer?  The issues with FS2's netcode means the meta there is nowhere near the same as it is in singleplayer, and no one is designing multiplayer mods.
Well, BP has a multi component, which Hades has a badge for. Also, ideally, there would be no significant difference between combat with AI and combat with human players (at least as far as BP goes, with its entire "player and AI equality" shtick). We're still quite far from that ideal, but that doesn't mean we can't be thinking of how to get closer to it.

 

Offline Hades

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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
BP Multi is effectively dead because everyone lost interest due to the decrepit state FSO's multiplayer is in.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
As one of the few people who has even played multiplayer within the past couple years, let alone one of the developers who've attempted to fix multiplayer issues, I can assure you that nobody plays multiplayer, and probably won't until something drastic happens.
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Offline CT27

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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
Based on the comments here, I found out that the Avenger was better than the Prometheus in FS1.  I honestly didn't know that.

 

Offline BirdofPrey

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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
That's probably because the fitting screen lies.
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Offline Galemp

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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
Just like the Boanerges' supposed maneuverability.
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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
or the myrm's supposed notapileof****ness
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Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
BP Multi is effectively dead because everyone lost interest due to the decrepit state FSO's multiplayer is in.
And would require a significant modding overhaul just to be compatible with current BP versions, as it was based on now obsolete BP versions from years ago. And yes, FSO multi is not exactly in a playable state right now.
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