Author Topic: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?  (Read 12162 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
Some of those things would work against aces, wouldn't they? Situational awareness and lack of altitude would kill Boom and Zoom, and the fact that the fighters are a lot tougher doesn't help either. The quick 360 rotation times and large numbers of enemies make it pretty damn difficult to reliably avoid getting shot(though you do have recharging shields for that very reason).
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
Unlimited fuel and ammo is the big one-try killing 20 aircraft in IL-2 Sturmovik and it's impossible simply because you run out of cannon quickly and machine guns aren't as useful, and you'll run out of those in a hurry too.
The element of not falling from the sky is also playing into FS favor because combined with shields you can be extremely aggressive. Also, WW2 didn't have a Trebuchet to boost your kill count like mad.
On the topic of killing large ships, if you made the most damage they'll give the kill to you, which sounds about right in real life-there's certainly one bomber that applies more damage then the others. Again, mechanics of fuel and ammo(bombs) make it impossible to do several bombing runs at it while you can fly around freespace giving them hell constantly.
I'd say the only really unrealistic thing about fs combat which helps alpha 1 tremendously is that enemies come in 4 by 4, not all at once or in a couple of concentrated waves.

 
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
To be fair, you won't be getting that many treb kills in FS2 unless you're just picking a Herc/Ares and lobbing them everywhere. Trebs become available pretty late in the campaign and treb-boats are rarely the best option for intercept.
I can definitely see where you're coming from. If the player wasn't always outnumbered and counted on to massively overperform to win almost any engagement you could pick up 10-20 kills per mission while staying relatively safe and eventually rack up completely ridiculous kill numbers.

I bet RL pilots never had to deal with **** like trying to stop 40 bombers that teleport about 4km from the warship you're supposed to protect while badly armed with finicky missiles and outright bad primaries  :mad:.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline Spoon

  • 212
  • ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
To be fair, the closest FS equivalent to a B-52 is the Ursa and you won't be getting any fighter kills in that unless you get really lucky with the turret or treb spam.
Speak for yourself.  At least in FS1, I used to love KO'ing light fighters with a few shots of tri-Prometheus goodness. :D
Yeah, getting kills in the Ursa really isn't all hard, it has plenty of forward firepower when equipped with Prom S
I've made plenty of kills in it, but then that's mostly in retail freespace situations, slow slow ai.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
FreeSpace does disperse its efforts, though, and it's really hard to disengage in FreeSpace.

First: that's not actually an obvious inference. The only time we get a real sense of the flight tempo of a GTVA destroyer is during the endgame at Capella, when they are balls to the wall and beyond any normal definition of "maximum effort". The pace of operations, based on any time we fly destroyer escort or are attempting to clear the way for a destroyer, suggests it's actually much slower as they rarely devote more than a squadron to the task. (In some ways, FS1 actually seems to have a higher operational tempo considering the scale of ops like the attack on the Eva vs. many of the FS2 missions that are similar, like The Sicilian Defense.)

WW2 ships disperse effort too; and what you're ignoring is that most of the dispersed effort, CAP and ASW patrols, always comes back. You're trying to argue for the majority of the dispersed effort suffering just as hard as strikes, as far as I can tell, which is crazy talk. If you want to talk about situations where we're in the game and which we're emulating in the missions, it's strike ops. That's the comparison being made.

Second, the argument it's very hard to disengage is ultimately fanon, and while it does match available evidence nicely to say that these people can't rather than won't disengage, I've seen more than enough fighters jump out and survive to know that what you're saying isn't a gospel truth.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 05:46:50 pm by NGTM-1R »
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
Nah, 'hard to disengage' is a pretty basic truth of the gameplay. Getting out of a fight isn't easy in FS. Warping out is one of the riskiest things you can attempt.

Because the missions we get in FreeSpace tend to be pretty high-intensity compared to a lot of the implied patrols and whatever else fighters do, it's no surprise that the wings we see are suffering such heavy casualties — and it lines up with historical precedents like the Pacific war. What doesn't make sense to me are the waved attacks, which is why I don't use many of them.

 

Offline Spoon

  • 212
  • ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
Nah, 'hard to disengage' is a pretty basic truth of the gameplay. Getting out of a fight isn't easy in FS. Warping out is one of the riskiest things you can attempt.
Truth.
The time that you hold still while your jump drives need to spin up is lethal. Disengaging from a fight when there are ships that are faster than yours around is nearly impossible.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline StarSlayer

  • 211
  • Men Kaeshi Do
    • Steam
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
It's really, really difficult for infantry to disengage from cavalry, the mounted arm excels at carving through fleeing infantry like cake.  Yet history is littered with units routing before cavalry with predictable results despite formed infantry being very robust against horsemen.  Similarly I can't see real flesh and blood NTF or GTVA pilots not attempting to flee from a downward spiraling combat situation even if it flies in the face of logic and is suicidal.  Not unless the Terrans decided to start completely removing moral breaks from their pilots after the unfortunate case of Lieutenant Ash. 

I'd wager its because in a game the player would feel cheated if quarter of the available things to shoot or blow up decided to heel and toe it instead of engaging and opening up ethical questions about constantly hunting down fleeing OpFor Baddies to pad your kill count.  There is are a lot of silly things in Freespace for the sake of gameplay, you can't tell me the GTVA couldn't build bombers that could drop their entire payload in a single run.  But they need to have bomber piloting missions that don't involve one run and done so we get to arduously fly in two weapons at a time.

Spoon is that better? :P
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 06:48:06 pm by StarSlayer »
“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 

Offline Spoon

  • 212
  • ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
Man, Starslayer. You really really really love the term 'OpFor' Don't you? In your last 5 posts, 4 of them have 'OpFor' in it, 5 occurrence total.

Please do me a favor and stop doing it, it's making you seem like you are trying so hard to be operator tacticool  :p
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
What to do when Opfor calls for exfil when you've got fox3 on six with heavy radar spike, no sweep from wing? Break left, burner punch and flares out with full yaw and full roll. Subspace turn on and you're safe.:P
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline Spoon

  • 212
  • ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
 :lol:
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
But they need to have bomber piloting missions that don't involve one run and done so we get to arduously fly in two weapons at a time.

Not for long :D

 
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
What to do when Opfor calls for exfil when you've got fox3 on six with heavy radar spike, no sweep from wing? Break left, burner punch and flares out with full yaw and full roll. Subspace turn on and you're safe.:P
This reminds of me of the Troy Queef column "Dab of oppo" on sniffpetrol. Those who read it know.  :D

 
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
It's really, really difficult for infantry to disengage from cavalry, the mounted arm excels at carving through fleeing infantry like cake.  Yet history is littered with units routing before cavalry with predictable results despite formed infantry being very robust against horsemen.  Similarly I can't see real flesh and blood NTF or GTVA pilots not attempting to flee from a downward spiraling combat situation even if it flies in the face of logic and is suicidal.  Not unless the Terrans decided to start completely removing moral breaks from their pilots after the unfortunate case of Lieutenant Ash. 

I'd wager its because in a game the player would feel cheated if quarter of the available things to shoot or blow up decided to heel and toe it instead of engaging and opening up ethical questions about constantly hunting down fleeing OpFor Baddies to pad your kill count.  There is are a lot of silly things in Freespace for the sake of gameplay, you can't tell me the GTVA couldn't build bombers that could drop their entire payload in a single run.  But they need to have bomber piloting missions that don't involve one run and done so we get to arduously fly in two weapons at a time.

Spoon is that better? :P

One other thing they could do is eject from their ships I suppose.

Oh wait. :lol:

 

Offline Spoon

  • 212
  • ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

  

Offline Snarks

  • 27
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
The GTVA actually really hates Alpha 1's guts. If his performance is anything less than stellar, he will get court martialed. Failing that, they assign him to progressively more insane sorties until he finally dies by the end of FS2.

 

Offline potterman28wxcv

  • 27
  • Just a fan player
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
What doesn't make sense to me are the waved attacks, which is why I don't use many of them.
Exactly. I would be curious to see what a no-wave FS1 & FS2 campaign would look like

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
The GTVA actually really hates Alpha 1's guts. If his performance is anything less than stellar, he will get court martialed. Failing that, they assign him to progressively more insane sorties until he finally dies by the end of FS2.

This actually makes sense, because it's canonical (as of the first mission of FS2) that Alpha 1's performance on tiny convoy escorts can alter the outcome of warship engagements millions of miles away.

 

Offline Spoon

  • 212
  • ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
A tiny convoy filled with Vasudan refugee's no less.
Apparantly incredibly vital to the war effort!
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
More canonical evidence for Project Nagari :science: