Author Topic: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens  (Read 66116 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline AdmiralRalwood

  • 211
  • The Cthulhu programmer himself!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Why is anyone arguing the whole "How did Kylo Ren find Rey" instead of the much larger question of "How the hell did Hux find Kylo Ren and get him off the planet before it blew up"
yeah, because nobody's ever heard of a tracking device in this universe

oh wait
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
What? You think Kylo Ren has a GPS tracker on him?

Well it's possible, but it's still pretty odd that he would consent to it. And it's really bad writing to pull that out of your arse when it was never mentioned in the film. Plot holes aren't necessarily unexplainable, they are unexplained. Kylo Ren getting picked is definitely a plot hole.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
This is going to be another one of those "JJ Abrams doesn't understand scale" excuses again. As if not understanding the size of a planet ISN'T a plot hole.

That's not an excuse in my eyes, it's a very poignant accusation. Quite accurate, IMHO.

Then again, in ESB the Falcon goes straight into an impossible asteroid field cluelessly just after leaving Hoth a few km/s tops. Ah, fantasy science fiction, how does it work?

 
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Why is anyone arguing the whole "How did Kylo Ren find Rey" instead of the much larger question of "How the hell did Hux find Kylo Ren and get him off the planet before it blew up"
yeah, because nobody's ever heard of a tracking device in this universe

Was one mentioned? The audience should not need to make excuses to cover up a hole in the story.


Here's a better way to tell the story, a way that takes as much time but actually makes sense:

<In the Forest>
Kylo Ren takes out a communicator: "I need help, help me . . . "

<At the Base>
Imperial Leader: "We're evacuating"
Comms Officer: "I've got a signal from Lord Ren, he's requesting help. Signal's coming from outside the base."
Imperial Leader: "Get a retrieval shuttle out there. Track his signal!"


Done. Makes sense. No plot hole. Gives Kylo Ren some character/weakness.


 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
This is going to be another one of those "JJ Abrams doesn't understand scale" excuses again. As if not understanding the size of a planet ISN'T a plot hole.

That's not an excuse in my eyes, it's a very poignant accusation. Quite accurate, IMHO.

Then again, in ESB the Falcon goes straight into an impossible asteroid field cluelessly just after leaving Hoth a few km/s tops. Ah, fantasy science fiction, how does it work?

1) We don't actually know how much time passes between the Falcon taking off and them flying into the asteroid. Enough time for Hoth to not be visible in a single shot, certainly.

2) I was challenged to find a plot hole which didn't depend on the old films. I found one. If Empire Strikes Back has a similar flaw it would still be okay because Empire didn't have tonnes of other plot holes too.

3) I've always had less of a problem with errors in science (that only someone with specialised knowledge would see) than I have with errors in basic common sense. If instead of happening on a starkiller the same issue had happened in a small city with General Hux driving a car people would find it equally stupid even though scale wouldn't change one iota.

Here's a better way to tell the story, a way that takes as much time but actually makes sense:

<In the Forest>
Kylo Ren takes out a communicator: "I need help, help me . . . "

<At the Base>
Imperial Leader: "We're evacuating"
Comms Officer: "I've got a signal from Lord Ren, he's requesting help. Signal's coming from outside the base."
Imperial Leader: "Get a retrieval shuttle out there. Track his signal!"


Done. Makes sense. No plot hole. Gives Kylo Ren some character/weakness.

You've basically summed up my entire problem with the films. They took lazy shortcuts when they didn't have to. Plinkett gives high praise to the scene in Empire where Vader is given information about the hunt for the Falcon, and rightly so. They took the chance to give us a whole bunch more exposition than was said in words. A lot of the arguments by people who didn't mind the plot holes is that the film wouldn't be as good if they'd tried to explain things. As you've pointed out, you could have used a scene filling in the plot hole to give us EXTRA information about the characters.

It's just the sheer laziness of the film that annoys me. Sometimes it doesn't even make sense. The scene where Finn battles with a random stormtrooper the first time he uses a lightsabre. Not only does it seem to make little sense that the stormtrooper would drop his weapons to fight Finn (yeah, maybe he has some motivation but we're never told what it is!) but they actually HAVE a character who does have a motivation to have that battle with Finn and yet for some reason I can't fathom that battle ISN'T with Captain Phasma.

Seriously, why?  :confused:


Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
1) We don't actually know how much time passes between the Falcon taking off and them flying into the asteroid. Enough time for Hoth to not be visible in a single shot, certainly.

It was previously established that a ship would meet a destroyer once it got out of the planet. Once the Falcon goes to space, the next scene we have is itself being porsued by some meters by a destroyer. Yes, they didn't show Hoth, because they were in "space" now (scale problems again). Curiously they failed to do this error in ANH's escape from Tatooine. Nevertheless they go from "we gotta fix this hyperdrive ****" to "Go up here Han", wow suddenly we are in this massive asteroid field that they somehow missed in their scanners right until they got there.

You can't go from "do these guys even understand the scale of a planet" to "I don't really care about scientific innacuracies" that fast man. You know, 14 parsecs' time. Or was it 12?

You also accuse the movie of being lazy, and I kinda see your point. Things just "seem to happen". I think you're overcriticizing it, but it's not an unfair analysis. They went from boring exposition in the prequels into NO EXPOSITION, ACTION ACTION ACTION. I do hope they reach a better harmony between the two of those next time.

 
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
When I am king the phrase 'plot hole' will be subject to a blanket ban.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

  

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
You can't go from "do these guys even understand the scale of a planet" to "I don't really care about scientific innacuracies" that fast man.

Yeah I can. In Empire Strikes Back the scientific errors never really got anywhere as stupid or as common as they were in TFA. Hell, you've forgiven all of them in TFA. Why? Cause they didn't spoil your enjoyment of the film. And that's the ONLY criteria that matters. In the original trilogy the errors basically fit into rule of cool. In TFA it's more like rule of lazy scriptwriting.


Quote
You also accuse the movie of being lazy, and I kinda see your point. Things just "seem to happen". I think you're overcriticizing it, but it's not an unfair analysis. They went from boring exposition in the prequels into NO EXPOSITION, ACTION ACTION ACTION. I do hope they reach a better harmony between the two of those next time.

I've said I liked the film. I'm just pissed off that the laziness involved made it a worse film than it needed to be. This is a film that could have been great but instead it was rushed and turned out merely good. Worse it did so cause of the same mistakes that the director has been criticised for before, so it's not like nothing could have been done to solve them. Surely JJ Abrams could have spared a few thousand out the the multimillion dollar budget to have hired a guy to slap his face whenever he forgot about scale again! Hell, I'd do it for free. :p

As I've pointed out, nothing in the original trilogy annoys me enough that it pulls me out of the film. None of the nitpicks that people keep mentioning in this thread slap you across the face and say "This was lazy scriptwriting." In TFA I saw tonnes of examples. And the problem is that most of them were completely unnecessary.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Scotty

  • 1.21 gigawatts!
  • 211
  • Guns, guns, guns.
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
1) Why does the empire have the map with the same missing piece? 2) Why does some guy on that planet have the missing piece, where did he get it from? 3) Why does R2D2 also have the rest of the map? 4) What the **** were the resistance going to do if it didn't turn out that R2D2 had the rest of the map? 5) Most importantly, who made the map in the first place?

Seriously, if you can't understand that these are questions a viewer might have, perhaps you should can the sarcasm.

Poe is trying to get the previously missing piece to a place it can be put together.

Completely and utterly wrong. The resistance DO NOT have the rest of the map. R2D2 has it and no one is aware of that fact. C-3PO even has a go at BB-8 for believing that R2 might have the rest. The resistance believed the map was complete.


As I suspected, you are in fact using the phrase "plot hole" incorrectly.  A plot hole is not something which leaves the viewer with a question, a plot hole is a logical inconsistency within a story.  If the answer to the question "why" is not explicitly stated in the movie, that does not make it a plot hole.  If something happens that logically could not happen based on other events in the story, that's a plot hole.

I've numbered your questions so I don't have to quote chain battle you here.

1) A direct quote from the movie. 
Quote from: Kylo Ren
He's carrying a section of a
           navigational chart. We have the
           rest, recovered from archives of the
           Empire. We need the last piece.
If your question is "why is the Empire's copy incomplete, too", that's not a plot hole for the reasons I mention above.  There could be any number of reasons, from R2 accessing the archives and deleting it, to something happening to it during another battle, to it being corrupted when the Death Star exploded.  If someone can explain it without contradicting something else in the movie it is not a plot hole.

2)
Quote from: That Old Guy
"The General." To me, she's royalty.
           Well, she certainly is that.
Clearly he knows Leia already.  It's not a stretch to assume that Luke also knows him, and would trust him with the bit of the map.  "Why would Luke trust the old guy?"  Not a plothole, see above.

3) See the answer to question #1.  Additionally:
Quote
The story group’s thinking went back to the 1977 original movie, when R2-D2 accessed the Empire’s mainframe as the heroes searched for the captured Princess Leia. “We had the idea about R2 plugging into the information base of the Death Star, and that’s how he was able to get the full map and find where the Jedi temples are,” Arndt said.

Abrams says he chose to spell this out indirectly in the movie because he didn’t want the story to get bogged down in “how **** happened 30 years ago.”
A shame that Mr. Abrams didn't understand how anal Star Wars fans are about everything. :P

4) Probably not find Luke!  That seems like a reasonable outcome based on the starting point and possible events.  How is this a plot hole, again?  The protagonists basing their hopes and futures on one plan with no backups is not only a regular occurrence in Star Wars, but a goddamn theme unto itself.

5) See #3.  Also, see #1 for why this isn't a plot hole.

In summary: Questions aren't plot holes.  If you're unsatisfied with something, that doesn't make it a plot hole.  You are allowed to be personally unsatisfied with the movie.  This does not make it a movie full of plot holes.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

  • Makes General Discussion Make Sense.
  • Global Moderator
  • 210
  • Keyboard > Pen > Sword
    • Twitter
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Is finding luke a major event? It was after all presented as the driving force of events in the opening titles and drove the action for the first half of the movie.

And?  The fact that R2D2 has the map (which is incidentally explained in TFA by exposition [C3P0 interpreting for R2, I believe], reminding the audience that R2 accessed the Imperial network in the previous films) is not itself a plot hole, and his timely reactivation is a convenient coincidence but not actually a hole either.

Quote
If the condition of your challenge to find plot holes is to examine the film on its own, apart from the other movies, don't you think that defending this movie using events from the others is a double standard?

Not when you're relying on facts that are identical to those in the previous films to claim holes in the latest one.

Quote
Vader went to hoth to find luke.
Luke was on hoth when the Falcon left.
If Vader could find luke the way kylo finds rey, why didn't he capture him on the hoth Battlefield instead of searching the base?

Great question!  On the other hand, how does Vader know Leia/Han are headed to Bespin?  How does Vader know Luke is on one tiny shuttle flying down to Endor?  How does Luke see a "city in the clouds" when Yoda is literally instructing him in Force Sight? How does the Emperor know Luke will come to Vader?

The Force is rampantly used without apology throughout all seven films. Like I said, you can't be claiming that it's not a problem in the earlier films and it IS a problem in the latest one.  From the first third of A New Hope, Star Wars audiences have been asked to accept implausible knowledge and implausible coincidences in the name of the Force. How is this new in TFA?

As I've pointed out, nothing in the original trilogy annoys me enough that it pulls me out of the film. None of the nitpicks that people keep mentioning in this thread slap you across the face and say "This was lazy scriptwriting." In TFA I saw tonnes of examples. And the problem is that most of them were completely unnecessary.

Watch them again on Blu-ray. You'll probably change your mind.  There's a ridiculous number of things I'm noticing now that irk me just as much as anything in TFA.

One point I mentioned earlier in the thread and kind of got left hanging was plot-line relevance.  ANH isn't bad, and ROTJ is pretty solid as well, but TESB has a solid half-hour of Vader pursuing the Falcon and Han and Leia that is totally irrelevant to the overall story.  From the moment they left Hoth to the moment they arrive in Bespin is a foray that is supposed to flesh out their "love story" but really doesn't.

I guess the reason I really don't understand the hate some people are throwing at TFA is that the OT is by no means a masterpiece of tight writing, character development, or acting.  They are good, entertaining movies that occupy a warm place in my thoughts, but the more criticism I read of TFA, the more I think it's driven half by rose-coloured-nostalgic glasses and half by a dislike of Abrams in general (who I actually don't mind at all).

Much like the Star Trek reboots (which I've also enjoyed), he added a distinct pacing change and general-audience entertainment to the Star Wars universe, and my personal suspicion is a lot of fan-boys (not you, kara, to be clear) are whining because they see it as an assault on the purity of their domains.  To which my general reaction is.... "d'aaaaawwwww, princess."
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
tbf to Abrams, I liked his first Star Trek and his second will probably be miles better than the third one, which could have been written by some Fast and the Furious script writers (they got the director, so it's almost there).

I think TFA was exactly what I expected from Abrams: a fast pacing movie without hiccups, immensely entertaining, funny and joyful, with good acting and a satisfying arc of a story. Filled with a lack of concern for details and one or two Joss Whedon-like one-liners (Han Solo's "It's bigger so what" ).

Now that the movie didn't suck and actually lived on those expectations, people ask, "why couldn't it be a better movie, I'm angry at that!", well, masterpieces are extremely rare and immensely hard to build. I feel exactly zero entitlenessness to have these movies be crazy good.

 
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Is finding luke a major event? It was after all presented as the driving force of events in the opening titles and drove the action for the first half of the movie.

And?  The fact that R2D2 has the map (which is incidentally explained in TFA by exposition [C3P0 interpreting for R2, I believe], reminding the audience that R2 accessed the Imperial network in the previous films) is not itself a plot hole, and his timely reactivation is a convenient coincidence but not actually a hole either.

You claimed it was not a big deal because all of the major events of the film had already ended. I'm saying finding Luke is a major event, so it is a big deal.
It's Deus Ex Machina is what it is. An unforeseen event solving an impossible problem.

A solution to a problem which references no specific event or film but rather on the general idea that R2D2 once plugged into the Death Star so he downloaded all their emails.

This is also taking place in a universe where the Millenium Falcon's star charts are detailed enough to have information on meteor showers in the Alderan system.  But where allegedly half the universe has lost the map of hundreds or thousands of stars easily observable by telescope.

Quote
Vader went to hoth to find luke.
Luke was on hoth when the Falcon left.
If Vader could find luke the way kylo finds rey, why didn't he capture him on the hoth Battlefield instead of searching the base?

Great question!  On the other hand, how does Vader know Leia/Han are headed to Bespin?

Boba Fett.
It's the only thing of value he does.

How does Vader know Luke is on one tiny shuttle flying down to Endor?

Because he's met him before and has a connection to him.
That's the one consistency in TFA as well.  People strong in the force can get an idea of where someone they've already met is, or at least where someone who is also strong in the force is when nearby. It's used three to four times. Vader when he feels Obi Wan in ANH. Vader when he sense Luke in ESB, AFTER they've met face to face. Vader/Luke in RoTJ After they've met face to face in ESB, Leia sensing roughly where longtime friend Luke is and in TFA for Kylo Ren who senses his Dad.

There's never been a time where a force user has been shown to sense and know where a stranger is.

Vader couldn't sense the location of the Falcon in the asteroids.
He couldn't sense that it was attached to the Avenger.

I would even argue that his claim they were still alive in the asteroid field was a hunch, not a force-based premonition.  Or maybe at best he can sense they're alive but not when a non-force user is nearby. This would incidentally make its use in TFA inconsistent as well since Han Solo is not someone strong in the force and should arguably not be able to be sensed. But this is not fully established. It's simply the pattern that every previous instance follows.

How does Luke see a "city in the clouds" when Yoda is literally instructing him in Force Sight? How does the Emperor know Luke will come to Vader?

Because that's called premonition.
Not omniscience.

They have a vision of the future not absolute knowledge of the present.
Yoda even defines such premonitions as based on feelings.

Further, Vader's ultimate betrayal of the Emperor demonstrates that their these premonitions are at best rough ideas and not reliable.

The Force is rampantly used without apology throughout all seven films. Like I said, you can't be claiming that it's not a problem in the earlier films and it IS a problem in the latest one.  From the first third of A New Hope, Star Wars audiences have been asked to accept implausible knowledge and implausible coincidences in the name of the Force. How is this new in TFA?

When is Kylo Ren shown using the force to find Rey? Did I miss a scene where he says "I sense someone strong in the force, this way!" Instead just shows up out of the blue. Twice.  In fact he finds her in two strange forests that he's probably never been to before but he can't find her on his own base when he knows she's escaped.

In any case, back to my original example, on Hoth the force didn't help Vader, because he didn't know Luke at the time. So it should not help Kylo Ren find Rey on the smuggler world. It's a plothole even if you view it in light of the other movies. The only time a person tracks down another person using the force is when Vader confronts Obi Wan on the Death star.

But as for Rey, finding her could be as easy as two lines of dialogue.

"Lord Ren, troopers have sighted a woman in the outlying forest who matches the description."
"Tell them to hang back, I will confront her myself."

Bam. Done. Plot hole filled.

tbf to Abrams, I liked his first Star Trek and his second will probably be miles better than the third one, which could have been written by some Fast and the Furious script writers (they got the director, so it's almost there).

I think TFA was exactly what I expected from Abrams: a fast pacing movie without hiccups, immensely entertaining, funny and joyful, with good acting and a satisfying arc of a story. Filled with a lack of concern for details and one or two Joss Whedon-like one-liners (Han Solo's "It's bigger so what" ).

Now that the movie didn't suck and actually lived on those expectations, people ask, "why couldn't it be a better movie, I'm angry at that!", well, masterpieces are extremely rare and immensely hard to build. I feel exactly zero entitlenessness to have these movies be crazy good.

Excellence was never achieved by rewarding mediocrity.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 01:12:39 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Vader didn't capture Luke on Hoth because that wasn't his plan. He did meet his "Force signature" before, in ANH's endgame. His plan was to destroy the rebellion for good. That's why he chased Leia. Then both he and the emperor figure out (somehow, by intel? by reasoning? by sensing?) that the "son" of Anakin Skywalker is alive and with the rebellion. So after getting the rebellion boss (Leia), he uses her as bait for Luke, who now seems to be even more important than Leia herself.

ESB's plot is tight. Very tight. It has some problems (and some I have already mentioned), but obviously TFA will lose a battle against ESB in writing tightness and consistency.

Although there is a huge plot hole in ESB. We never get why Vader simply goes away when Luke lets himself fall down. Vader is a corpse in motion, he should know that the Force is something that keeps you alive. He already sensed Luke's presence very well. Why did he waste time to get to his SuperStarDestroyer instead of making a search for the body himself? I never fully swallowed that part.

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Excellence was never achieved by rewarding mediocrity.

I haven't realised someone here had awarded TFA with a... how did you put it, "reward", or something, so... kindly take your advises elsewhere? SIGH.

 
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Vader didn't capture Luke on Hoth because that wasn't his plan.




Excellence was never achieved by rewarding mediocrity.

I haven't realised someone here had awarded TFA with a... how did you put it, "reward", or something, so... kindly take your advises elsewhere? SIGH.

It's been "rewarded" with 1.93 Billion dollars as well as glowingly positive reviews. 1.93 Billion which has in part come from multiple viewings by single individuals. That and an RT score of 93%.
There's zero incentive for Disney to do anything different in the next few movies. In fact there's strong incentive to do a movie which has exactly the same elements on the assumption that the same formula will yield the same profit the same way the other studio keeps churning out Transformers movies which are at best mediocre but make a ton of cash.  For anyone thinking "this one did okay, but I hope the next one will be better" I suspect you'll be disappointed. Because why would they? There's zero incentive to make a movie any smarter or tighter when they receive universal praise and they've made more money than any movie in history (inflation aside).
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 01:49:51 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline Galemp

  • Actual father of Samus
  • 212
  • Ask me about GORT!
    • Steam
    • User page on the FreeSpace Wiki
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
It's just the sheer laziness of the film that annoys me. Sometimes it doesn't even make sense. The scene where Finn battles with a random stormtrooper the first time he uses a lightsabre... they actually HAVE a character who does have a motivation to have that battle with Finn and yet for some reason I can't fathom that battle ISN'T with Captain Phasma.

Seriously, why?  :confused:

This bugged the crap out of me too. Seeing all the attention memetic stormtrooper "TR-8R" is getting just makes me more upset at the lost potential here.
"Anyone can do any amount of work, provided it isn't the work he's supposed to be doing at that moment." -- Robert Benchley

Members I've personally met: RedStreblo, Goober5000, Sandwich, Splinter, Su-tehp, Hippo, CP5670, Terran Emperor, Karajorma, Dekker, McCall, Admiral Wolf, mxlm, RedSniper, Stealth, Black Wolf...

 

Offline zookeeper

  • *knock knock* Who's there? Poe. Poe who?
  • 210
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Of course, as per the opening crawl, Vader knew who Luke was. His little chat with the Emperor isn't about anyone having just found out Luke exists, but about "a great disturbance in the Force", which is logical to assume to refer to Luke meeting Yoda.

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Damn I hadn't noticed that, and I saw that **** just a few weeks ago :D.

Well, Luke did flee before Vader arrived. So I think that's enough excuse.

Regarding billions. Who ****ing cares about billions of dollars in movies except the companies themselves? I really couldn't give a damn, especially since Trasnsformers.

ANH did *amazingly well* for the time (hell, it changed the entire movie industry), and still we got ourselves a better sequel. So I might be disappointed, but then again I might not. Bonus points: Abrams won't direct it.

I could have thought of zillions of ways this movie could have just gone off the rails, and the fact that it didn't pleases me enough. You, OTOH, are the perfectionist we are all acquainted by now, it doesn't surprise me that you rant about it. However, expecting something "smart" to come out of a Star Wars movie... I mean, come on man. If you want something smart there's tons of smarter ****s in the world.  Really. Star Wars is a spectacle, not a "smart" movie. For something smart, go see something smaller like Ex Machina or Children of Men.

 
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Damn I hadn't noticed that, and I saw that **** just a few weeks ago :D.

Well, Luke did flee before Vader arrived. So I think that's enough excuse.

Luke is literally walking through the snow to a rebel staging area at the exact moment the Millenium Falcon flies skyward, he turns and watches it go, this is the same Falcon which just a moment ago left Darth Vader in the hangar of the rebel base with a squad of stormtropers. Luke was still on Hoth. He was destroying an AT-AT on foot when the rebels were already running from the trenches

@ https://youtu.be/HgY3rOOascY?t=7m15s The Imperial Troops enter the base. Leia calls the retreat. The battle is lost.
Darth Vader is in the base, while Luke skywalker is still on thbattlefield. When the rebels are running for the hills he's still among their forces, vulnerable to capture, destroying an AT-AT.

@ https://youtu.be/HgY3rOOascY?t=10m48s Vader is in the base, watching the ship fly away. Luke is walking through the snow, turns to see it go.

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Yeah, he's not in the base. He's well outside of it going into his XWing.


Which, in turn, can be turned into quite the PLOT HOLE in ESB. If the WHOLE point of Vader going to Hoth was to "capture Luke", why did he pursue the Millenium Falcon in the first place? Why didn't he sense he was not there? Why did he even go down there and not wait in orbit now that the ion cannons were disabled (due to the power plant being destroyed)? Why wasn't Luke's XWing bothered by anyone at all? Why wasn't his XWing giving cover to other transports exactly like how Leia commanded them (there was only "two" per transport, remember?).

No, he's all by himself and no one bothers him and he couldn't give a damn about the other transports. We just assume they are all ok, despite them fleeing mostly at the same time that the Falcon did and the Falcon had lots of troubles getting the empire off its tail.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 02:27:52 pm by Luis Dias »